Ep.14: Jeff Culbertson - Building Foundations on Trust and Market Savvy

As Dan reminisces about his son's fishing victory in Cabo and Blake's magical time at Disneyland, it's clear that these experiences weave into the fabric of life's greater journey—one that Jeff Culberson, with his 46-year stronghold in real estate, knows all too well. Our latest episode is a melody of stories and insights, with Jeff's anecdotes offering a symphony of wisdom on the resilience necessary to flourish in the ever-changing real estate market. Together, we harmonize over the values that make a successful career: hard work, empathy, and the courage to take risks.

Jeff guides us through his own story of mentorship, empathizing with the challenges that new agents face in this vast industry. With a masterful blend of personal tales and professional guidance, he illustrates why nurturing talent is paramount and how the most unexpected career backgrounds can lead to astonishing real estate success. We also peer into the crystal ball of industry evolution, pondering the NAR settlement's impact and the transformation of client relationships in a digital era. 

Whether you're a seasoned pro or just starting out, join us for an episode that paints a vivid picture of the art of real estate, interwoven with the personal journeys that define it.

Transcript

Vacations and Resilience

Speaker 1 0:20

all right, dan week after easter.

Speaker 2 0:22

Yeah, buddy, how you doing I'm just back from cabo, so I mean never better I know, man, neither of us really get to take vacations, so how was it? It was great man it was. It was really awesome. Got to take my 11 year old uh fishing in the ocean. He caught two and my buddy and I caught none, so he's got all the bragging rights. I think he took 20 bucks out of each of our pocket after we paid for the trip and uh, you know no, looking back, that's awesome dude.

Speaker 1 0:46

Good for you all. I'm glad you got away.

Speaker 2 0:47

You're grinding here at home, so it's good to reset a little bit and you got to, uh, you got to go down to the happiest place on earth with your family, yeah.

Speaker 1 0:53

My oldest daughter turned seven and we went to Disneyland on her birthday, so it took all three kids down there. And you know I love orange County. My brother-in-law lives down there so we get to go visit him some. But uh, it's been odd. You know, we've gone some times where we have not had the best weather and we just hit this perfect spell of it was 70 every day, not windy, at the beach. My favorite thing about the beach with little kids is they just go and do their own thing. I mean, I get to watch them, but they don't need me to play with them, they don't need. They just get zoned out and they dig holes and they fill them with water and then they do it again and we were able to get away with literally buying.

Speaker 2 1:24

We bought my 11 year old just the little cheap sand sand toy box kit. Yeah, like for, like you know, 20 pesos, and it was like it was the best that he was. He was right back to being that little kid on the beach. He loved it. It was great. So that's awesome, yeah.

Speaker 1 1:38

Well good, it's good to see you back.

Speaker 2 1:39

Dude, it felt like it went really quick, though too I feel like I just saw you. Yeah, it's been a whirlwind. It's going to be another quick turnaround this week. I actually leave Friday again for drive out to Salt Lake for more volleyball, so quick turnaround A few years before that, but you go enjoy that. Yeah, I'll lay the roadmap for you, buddy.

Speaker 1 1:55

Well, tell me a little bit about the guests we're having on today.

Speaker 2 1:57

So our guest today, mr Jeff Culberson, has done pretty much everything inside the mortgage and real estate world Just an incredible, incredible person. We've had, actually, multiple guests who offline talked about their admiration of Jeff and we said you know what? We've got to reach out and get this guy on and see what the special sauce is and what it's all about. Awesome.

Speaker 1 2:27

Well, let's play a song and get them out here.

Speaker 2 2:36

Let's get them on. All right, Jeff, I got to try.

Speaker 1 2:46

Michael McDonald, tell us about it. Tell us.

Speaker 3 2:49

Well, you know, you guys are obviously a lot younger than I am, so you might not remember some of the great music that actually was created. But Michael was a lead singer for a group called the Doobie Brothers back in the day and I've always liked Michael and was fortunate enough to be in the Bay Area and being able to listen to him a few times in person, and he and his sister his sister actually sings pretty well also but anyway, a few years ago, you know, things were down and, as I shared with you, earlier.

Speaker 3 3:16

I've been doing this a long time, 46 years, in the real estate industry, and there's always. There's always, you know, a mountain to climb. There's always something going on. We have this, this new one that I think we're going to chat about here in a moment.

Speaker 2 3:27

Sure, the elephant in the room, yeah, so.

Speaker 3 3:29

I'm driving, you know we, all of a sudden the market shifts and you know that's what markets? Do they? You know they don't get better, they don't get worse, they just kind of shift office. And I hear and this was a while back, I think I was still running CB at the time and I hear this song and I was, if I remember right, I was on my way to speak at one of the offices I think it was in Studio City down in Southern California and I heard the song and I thought this is it. You know what Michael basically says.

Speaker 3 3:57

And here's a guy who's obviously hugely successful and the song's all about hey, no matter, you know, some people quit and some people that say the road's too far, and but as for Michael McDonald and his song, it's I got to try Right, and and that's always kind of been, I think my claim to fame, so to speak, is I.

Speaker 3 4:17

You know, I used to always tell my people when, whether it was Contempo in the Bay Area or Cobblebank or you know what, obviously what we're doing now with Corbertson and Gray is I. You know, I've, I've always been a realist. I know I'm not the smartest person, I, I, I'm definitely not the best looking person, right, but but I but it's really really hard to outwork me and and that's you know, I and I think that's you know, and I think that's bode well for me in the real estate business. So that's where the Michael McDonald song comes from. You know, he and the Doobie Brothers have obviously been a part of my life as I enjoy music and I'm not one of those music people that know all the words and that type of thing, but I've always liked that raspy voice of Michael's.

Speaker 2 5:01

That's where it comes from. I love it. It aligns with one of the themes that comes up often on this podcast. This is our 14th episode.

Speaker 1 5:09

I believe yeah 14.

Speaker 2 5:10

And one of the ones that I've always, I've always enjoyed was uh, you know how to eat an elephant. It's one bite at a time, you know, tumultuous, if you don't keep going you'll never finish, and I love it.

Speaker 1 5:28

I love the way the song aligns with uh, with who you are, and and and that serves you so well in so many ways in a general sense to, like you know, obviously, in your business and your personal relationships. A funny side note my, my mom, who's coming to visit this week, sent my kids a few things for Easter and she sent them grass for their Easter baskets. It's edible. Well, most, like most things that are not like really truly meant to be eaten. It wasn't my kid's favorite and so my youngest threw it all over the rug and, amazingly, the combination somebody at NASA has got to get on this, the combination between fake grass and our rug, was like I could knock it off, could vacuum it up.

Speaker 1 6:07

So I sat there last night with my wife and we're just chatting and I'm I'm scraping it up with a butter knife and I was pretty much like this is impossible, I'm not, this is way too much, I'm not going to get it done. And I just sat there and literally it was that thing that crossed my head. I said you know what it's, while You're going to be down here, might as well just keep scraping away. And an hour later we were. We're all cleaned up. So it really does apply to everything. Um, well, obviously we're going to get into a lot of your accomplishments and some of the people we've had on the show that have had nothing but great things to say about you. But let's take it back to you know where are you from and um, and why are you living here now, where you do live?

Speaker 3 6:42

Great, great, great place to start, especially being sitting here across from the old railroad station.

Speaker 1 6:49

Yeah.

Speaker 3 6:51

Well, I'm actually fourth generation Lincoln, California, and it blows people away because when I grew up in Lincoln it was 2000 people.

Speaker 1 6:58

Sure.

Speaker 3 6:59

I turned 18 on August 2nd and left on the 5th and thought I'd never be back. Right, I turned 18 on August 2nd and left on the 5th and thought I'd never be back. But you know, I moved down to San Jose when I was 18 to go to school, play baseball.

Speaker 1 7:11

Where did you go to school, Jeff?

Speaker 3 7:15

Well. I actually didn't go, but I was going to go to Santa Clara, san Jose State, and ended up, you know, just doing the very basics of San Jose State. The very basics of San Jose State.

Speaker 3 7:27

But I had started in the real estate business my uncle, had been chief of police in Lincoln for 32 years, robert Jimenez, and he was retiring about the time I was graduating from high school Life does funny things right and he was getting his real estate license. That was, of course, before the internet. There was one real estate school that you could go to on Riverside, okay, and my uncle asked me if I would go with him and he thought it would be a great way for me to pay my way through school. You know, maybe get a job at a title company, a rep or something.

Speaker 3 7:56

And I had no idea what would happen when I went down to San Jose but moved down there didn't know a soul and there were some lonely days being by myself. Sure, I'm the oldest of six, so I was used to, you know, a lot of people around me, but started, you know, I went out and interviewed a couple of brokers who wouldn't hire me. They said I was too young and that, you know, got to remember 1978 was a different time, right, and both those brokers, by the way. I came to regret that decision.

Speaker 1 8:24

Yeah, I uh both those brokers. By the way, I uh came to regret that decision.

Speaker 2 8:31

I bet anybody, anybody who chose to not hire you, that ship, that ship might still be on his shoulder.

Speaker 3 8:33

But uh, you know, I met a man that changed my life and and he became my broker and and, uh, you know, kind of a second father to me and taught me a lot of lessons, tom Spear, and, and he's the reason you know that. You know I'm sitting here right now doing this podcast, but anyway, he, you know he was the old school, you know, I mean I tell all my new agents have heard the story, for, you know, 40 years I he literally took me out the first day. I had no kind of signed contract with him, anything. He just told me he was going to take me out to see if I had what it took to be in the real estate business. So I met him at one o'clock, at two 30.

Speaker 3 9:08

He drove down I still remember the drive because I was shaking in my shoes down Capitol Avenue, right on Barry S a, left on Morrill, and he pulled over and he said I'll be back in an hour. Before that he had given me this little three by five card that you know said hello, my name is, I represent. The name of the company was Better Homes Realty and I was wondering if you folks have given any thought to moving in the next four to six months. And I literally I met this man at one o'clock and at 2.30, he drove me out and dropped me off To go knock on doors, knock on doors.

Speaker 2 9:40

Yeah, baby.

The Journey to Real Estate Success

Speaker 3 9:41

And how I and everybody else that I've told this story to they've heard me say this a thousand times. I know there's a real estate guy, because the 10th door that I was about to knock on there was a man washing his car. And I, you know, I was shaken, you know, and I'm sure my voice was cracking and I said, hey, you know my name is. And I, you know I was not as composed as I would do it now because I've knocked on 10,000 doors since then. But, uh, anyway, I, I, I said, uh, you know, my name is Jeff Colbertson. I represent better homes, realty in the areas One of you folks have given a thought to moving in the next, you know, three to six months, just like the card said, and and he's, he's washing his car and he kind of does one of those things.

Speaker 3 10:27

He stops and he looks at me and then how, again, where the real estate God comes in, they had a screen door and his wife, georgia, came up to the screen door and she looked out. She said, gary, what's going on out there? I just kid you not. He says there's some kid out here wants to know if we want to move. And and, uh, she did what you know, if you've ever if in the real estate business, if you ever go out prospecting, they don't usually say we've been waiting for one of you to come by. Uh, they say things like, well, where would we move to? And I said, ma'am, that's my job, I'll, I'll find you a place, right, and so anyway that's pretty good.

Speaker 1 11:00

I bet that wasn't on the car it was.

Speaker 3 11:02

It was, uh, totally you know, higher power taking me someplace Right, and so I went out and knocked a few more doors and I went back and waited for Tom at the corner and he was about an hour late. Uh, you know, he used to go up to the drying shed there in San Jose and those days everybody had a little afternoon what he used to call an afternoon pop.

Speaker 3 11:23

And he finally came back and got me and I was all excited. I told him long story short, we called Gary and George and went out two days later and listed their house. And, of course, like I tell all my newer agents, the great thing about prospecting, much of the time, if you have the courage to do it, because you bring the idea to them, you don't only get to represent them on the sell side, but you get to represent them on the buy side. So, uh, so the first sale I had, I mean, we put their house into escrow and and uh, but the seller the the offer.

Speaker 3 11:52

In those days we used to do what they called 80, 10 tents, 80% financing, 10% down, and the seller would carry 10%. You can still lawful, you can still do it today, Just nobody does, but anyway. So we had this 10% second. Well, Gary and Georgia needed the money from the 10% second in order to buy the next house they wanted, and so I had, uh, I got the experience of trying to sell a second and escrow Right. So that was my first right off the bat right, real complicated, but but anyway.

Speaker 3 12:18

so so I I I was doing well with Tom and and was a great guy, and Tom was about ready to retire. He also did mortgages right, and so I had met these other folks and ended up making good friends with a few other young people A man by the name of Bob Moles, who went on to become my partner and then the president of Realogy. A guy by the name of Gino Bluffari, who was my partner, now the president of Berkshire Hathaway, kevin Moles, bob's brother, bill Moles, greg Macris, who was the executive vice president of Cobble Banker for many years, and we all just were buddies. We were on a softball team and one day, you know, after you know, my wife and I've been married for a while and I can tell you that that's a great story too. It's all real estate related. But my wife says people come up to you and ask you questions all the time. Anyway, maybe we should start our own company.

Speaker 3 13:14

I was 27 years old and I said I don't know, but in those days you wanted to go with a franchise. There was a franchise, believe it or not, called Red Carpet, and there was Century 21 and everything else. And so I'm interviewing these guys and my phone rings and it's Bob Moles and Bob says, hey, I hear you. You know you're looking to go out on your own. Why don't we, why don't we take Pop's Bill's, his dad's company because it was just basically one office and build it? And I said, and I loved Bob. And I said, good enough. And so I went home and told Jennifer and she loved Bob, and so we became partners and opened. This is a great thing for people to understand just how you do things when you're young that maybe you don't do when you're older. So we became partners and we were in Almaden Valley of San Jose and we were looking for space and and so I went out and leased 6200 square feet I had a lot of space I had two agents signed up.

Speaker 3 14:12

One was my wife and the other one was me, right?

Speaker 2 14:14

nice uh, loyal only at only 3100 square feet.

Speaker 3 14:18

Only a 27 year old does something like that but anyway, um, it turned out that that I was a pretty good recruiter and and I think you know there's at those in those days Mike Ferry and Floyd Wickman used to do a program on on office management and Floyd, you know, some of you guys might know him he's, he was from sweat hog fame Right and so I got to know those guys, and, and Mike, and, and, and so I I decided that my one partner, kevin Moles, was really good at bringing experienced agents in and that was kind of his thing. But I found out I was really good with new people and part of it, to be honest with you, probably was because I found that a lot of brokers and managers didn't have the passion for it, they didn't want to take the time. New people. I mean. I'm sitting here right now and I had to turn off my phone because, I'll bet you, I have three messages from some of my new people right, but you kind of have to again have a passion for that.

Speaker 2 15:16

Do you think that any of that came from that early, early success? Is there a correlation between the 10th door that you knock. I mean so many realtors and people real estate professionals in general work so long for that, for that first piece of the carrot you know, and for you to get it like that. You think there's a correlation between that and your, your eagerness for the newer agent.

Speaker 3 15:41

Well, here, here. Here's something that I used to tell my managers all the time is there's a couple of things you have to do in today's world. You have to be able to read people faster. You know new people that come in, and I don't care how good you are. I don't care how good you are, you will be wrong both ways.

Speaker 1 15:58

You'll bring somebody in and you don't know you maybe.

Speaker 3 16:01

And next thing, you know she's killing it. And then you'll bring somebody in and this is from experience I had in san jose who'd been in the commercial business. He looked like tom cruise. I thought you know, my god, this guy's gonna kill it right? Never sold a house, right? So so part of it is is uh, yeah, you know, uh, I think you're right, I, I was very fortunate, uh, I, for whatever reason, I'm able to relate quickly with people, whether it was at the door or over the phone, because I also did a lot of cold calling. And it's like in past interviews, people have always asked me what is it you look for? And I say, if I could define what it is, I probably wouldn't be being interviewed right now. And cause you? You know there are some people that that you meet. Then you just know they're going to do great. Like you brought up Kaylee a little while ago. You know she's, you know I'm in from the day I met her when she was a rap. I was a title rap.

Speaker 3 16:55

I was like you know, there's just some people that have it, yeah, but but no, you're you're absolutely right that, uh, donna, it's, it's, uh, you know, having started like I did and having somebody, if I think it's even deeper than that, I think if the first two brokers wouldn't have said no to me right, I wouldn't have had such an appreciation for what Tom did for me.

Speaker 1 17:19

Yeah, it really did change my life. Elaborate on that, too, a little bit, jeff, because this is an industry I mean really any industry where you're going to find success. You're going to hear no a lot.

Speaker 3 17:27

And.

Speaker 1 17:27

I'm sure that after 46 years, no is just as prevalent as it's ever been in this industry. So talk about, you know, the people that are successful. You obviously have some grit and you're going to try, like you mentioned, but what do you see that carries those people? Maybe not what's the factor, but how do you motivate your new people or incentivize them or or bring out of them the ability to go past all those no's to get to that yes, when they can't see it yet?

Speaker 3 17:52

Yeah, well, that's you know. I mean, you know people are, people are different, right, and, and you have to. You know you sit down with some people and and, like I was saying earlier, you, you, you, you can't read everyone perfectly. Some people just have it and then others, you know they, they have to work harder. You know and and and so what I, what I try to do with with people, is I always tell them because, uh, when I was 21, I spoke at California association of realtors and some lady had asked me you know well, what do you do when you have a bad? You know there's somebody had to, you know a bad person at the door or whatever, and I say, well, you know, I mean, I, it's real complicated, I, I pretty much just go to the next door you know and, and and and you know, you do have to have a little bit of a tough skin, uh.

Lessons on Real Estate and Empathy

Speaker 3 18:36

But but the other thing is, if you, if you, if, uh, one of the things that Tom taught me years ago and this is really good for your listeners that are newer I was up visiting my folks in Lincoln and this was before cell phones, and I had gone to a seminar because I was a seminar junkie and I was trying to use my mom and dad's phone and there's another great story about my dad on the phone but anyway, I was using their phone. I was making calls to my prospects back in San Jose and my mom heard me and my mom's just the salt of the earth person, I mean this little Mexican lady, everybody at Lincoln, they call her the angel of Lincoln, right, but she looked at me and I could tell she was upset and I'm like you know what's up? You know what? What's wrong? I know nothing. And I said what's wrong? Mom, she goes. Honey, you don't have to talk like that. People will like you for who you are, just be yourself.

Speaker 3 19:31

And so I thought about that all the way home and in those days I could make it from Lincoln to San Jose in about two hours and 45 minutes. I used to time it and actually I was living in Milpitas at the time, right there on Jacklin, and I was thinking about what she was saying. And Milpitas at the time, right there on Jacqueline, and and I was thinking about what she was saying and and you know, it's kind of like I was alluding to a little while ago about when I was speaking at CAR and the lady was looking at me and she, you know, and I could tell she was looking for some direction and and she says it's incredible, how old are you? I said 21. And she was, and and I said, well, tell me about you. And she said, well, you know, I'm just trying to get going, I've got two little kids and I really don't have a lot of money. And I said, you know, I'm the one that should be impressed.

Speaker 1 20:08

I mean, I'm 21 years old. If it goes south.

Speaker 3 20:11

I have nothing to lose, you know. So I go back to cooking at Denny's or something you know, and you, you've got two little kids. I said, you know, you, the business and my approach to the mentoring and um and the and the education and the and the training of people, um, I, I, I've never forgotten, I've never forgotten how hard it is to get started, you know, and I, when anybody that I, I, uh, work with I, you know they'll, they'll all tell you they're just, you know, sometimes to a fault, they laugh. You know, because the phone rings at nine o'clock at night and you know, on a Saturday night and I'm at the movies, I'll step outside and answer the phone. Because here's the thing to remember if you're a manager or team leader or a broker is, all real estate agents have fires.

Speaker 3 20:59

Everybody has a fire from time to time, but brand new agents, newer agents, they have bonfires and if you don't get in front of it that you know it's it's going to be a bad thing, but uh, uh, you know. To answer your question, I think empathy is is a big attribute, whether you're a manager or uh, you know, uh, for years I would always tell people the reason that former teachers and former nurses do so well in this business is because teachers obviously know how to educate and right, and nurses have natural empathy, right, and if you look at people who have done well in this industry, there's a good chance that they you know a lot of them have a teaching credential. A lot of them have been in the medical profession.

Speaker 3 21:37

So, but anyway no, it's it's you're absolutely right is is everything that you do in this life, you know, obviously comes into play as and cause. I was, you know, thinking about this last week. I, you know, I'm 65, been doing this 46 years and and my friends are like you know, who've known me for years. When are you going to retire? When?

Speaker 1 21:57

I retired twice.

Speaker 3 21:59

You know I retired when we sold Contempo for a whopping six months and then in 2016, you know, when we moved back up here from we were actually down in Newport. You know real rough duty living in Newport but but but uh, you know, it's just. You know I, I have friends of mine that have retired and and they just they seem bored.

Speaker 2 22:19

Yeah, so I don't, I don't want to, I don't want to interrupt, but but Jeff literally just said the first nice thing about la yeah, in the history, that's right newport's.

Speaker 3 22:33

You know, orange county's a different place, but that's a great question, though, too.

Speaker 1 22:39

that we wanted to talk to you about is you, you know, very likely could live anywhere that you would have wanted to? You, uh, have lived some really awesome, beautiful places that I just went to vacation. Why do you choose to live here now when you could probably be anywhere?

Speaker 3 22:54

Again very complicated answer Grandkids.

Speaker 1 22:56

Yeah, that'll do it.

Speaker 3 22:58

We have three. One, our daughter, lives in Auburn and Colby our son, who you know has two and he lives in Newcastle. Awesome, so we live in Cotterby there. They're in Lincoln, so real, real, close to the grandkids.

Speaker 1 23:10

Very cool yeah.

Speaker 3 23:11

Families has always been a very big part of everything that we do.

Speaker 1 23:16

That's awesome.

Implications of Real Estate Industry Changes

Speaker 2 23:17

So, Jeff, obviously with your, with your, with your history of leadership, I think it's prevalent right now that we want to talk about the NAR settlement and kind of how are you approaching and advising realtors that are seeing this? I mean, obviously they're being told to change and start doing things a little differently Talk a little bit about the NAR settlement and kind of how your thoughts are and what implications that might have on the next even just year and a half or two years of real estate. I think there's gonna be a lot of change that happens pretty abruptly, but the overall I'm sure you haven't thought about it either.

Speaker 1 23:52

And nobody asked you zero conversations about it with anybody else.

Speaker 3 23:55

Yeah Well, my, my, my last you know a week ago, friday, my phone started ringing about 6.00 AM.

Speaker 3 24:01

Um, you know it's, it's something that a lot of us saw coming to some degree. We just didn't know how, you know, how the changes, how deep the changes were going to go. And some of us had hoped because, you know, like I say, I've been around forever Agency wasn't always a disclosure. Agency came in in the 80s and everybody was thinking it was going to change everything. You know, and then, believe it or not, seller's transfer, disclosure wasn't always around. That came in, you know Easton case and there's always been changes.

Speaker 3 24:32

This one is obviously very dramatic because it does change the way that, especially, you know, newer agents that don't have a book of business, a book of referral business, are going to have to do their business business, uh, are, are, are going to have to do their business. But you know, the one thing that that a lot of people don't understand is if you were a realtor in Manhattan, in New York, uh, in the city of New York, uh, they, they've never had a multiple listing service. Okay, a lot of people don't know that. And Pam Liebman is a friend of mine who ran, who still runs, corcoran and, uh, you know, I used to ask her. I, you know, I used to ask her. You know how do you sell it's. You know they pick up the phone, they call somebody over at Brown or they call somebody at you know one of the different real estate companies and they set appointments and they talk about compensation on the phone and that's how they've done business there for years. I think you know.

Speaker 3 25:22

If you read the settlement at least it's the proposed settlement you know it's not final law yet and that's the thing that everybody has to remember. There's some language in there that I would hope would be more clarified. Like you know, I'm not sure what the court's intent. You know when they say, before the touring of any properties, t-o-u-r-i-n-g. Right, and if you look up the word in the dictionary, you know it talks about, you know, going from place to place, or you know it even uses a bicycle race. You know as an example. You know. So one of the concerns that you know, as it relates to just the practice of meeting people and you know, educating them and hopefully they want to work with you as their realtor is.

Speaker 3 26:06

It doesn't usually happen on a phone call or via an email or a text right, it usually happens face to face because now the buyer representation is and it has been because by representation, as you know, has been around for like 25, 30 years and just nobody's been using it.

Speaker 3 26:21

But it's going to be very similar to a listing presentation where you're going to have to explain to people this is what I can do for you, this is how I will protect you, represent you and make sure that everything goes as smoothly as possible.

Speaker 3 26:35

So the actual settlement once it comes down because what comes out is this what they call a statement of information, and we had the same thing when we had the independent contractor versus the employee lawsuit down in southern california several years ago. The statement of information uh, it basically was was what clarified what you could and couldn't do right and and that's what we would hope that would happen here is is. What I'm hoping is is whomever is in charge of that, uh, sees the charge of that, takes some guidance from people in the industry and realizes that it would be next to impossible for me to talk to someone on the phone in San Jose and say before I can show you a home here in Roseville, you need to hire me. I've never met you, you don't know who I am, you have done no research on me, but I need you to sign a document obligating yourself to work with me, right?

Speaker 2 27:26

now, and vice versa as well. Right Cause, that's, that's the realtors sometimes don't choose to work with just anybody either.

Speaker 1 27:31

So that's absolutely true, and especially in this area where you get such an influx. You know interest data. I don't know if there's a bigger movement than there is from the Bay or other spots in the state to here and how many of the agents that we work with it. You know that's a big chunk of their business. They've built these online personas and presence and a great track record of really helping buyers relocate. So if the first time they're meeting them, or really first handful of times, is through Zoom or phone calls and I've got people that have been in contract that have never even met the person- They've done.

Speaker 3 28:03

You know, facetimes or whatever else. That really complicates that quite a bit, right, and you're absolutely right. I, that really complicates that quite a bit, right, and you're absolutely right. I mean, you know we are definitely a destination market, right, the Bay Area is an origination market, la has become an origination market and here in the greater Sacramento area, you know we're benefiting from that. But you know this is a hurdle that we'll have to get through.

Speaker 3 28:20

And again, like you say, I mean whether you're the realtor or the prospect who you're hoping to turn into a client, you know, somehow, some way. You know you mentioned Zoom there's going to have to be more upfront communication and, to your point, we started talking about it on our team, as you know, we have a large team and we saw it coming. We started talking about it about three months ago and we, we we've done training around it, a lot of coaching, and there's going to be a lot more and and and anybody that. You know it. It kind of cracks me up when I hear some of these people well, it's no big deal, right? Well, you know, that's that maybe. Maybe not to you, because you're a great salesperson, but you've got to remember probably 60% of our agents in the industry that are good agents.

Speaker 3 29:09

There's a difference between being a great realtor and being a great salesperson. I've had realtors that are just people that I would use to sell my own properties, but they're not great marketers. And I've had people that are great marketers that I wouldn't let sell my dog's house.

Speaker 2 29:23

I've had people that are great marketers that I wouldn't, let you know, sell my my dog's house Right and and and and.

Speaker 3 29:26

So you know what what happens is is those people that haven't been able to to basically put out there to the public. This is this is what I do and this is how I do it, and if you don't believe me, you know I have testimonials to prove it and that's where we've been talking about online testimonials for a long time. I mean our team. I think we've got something like 600 five-star Zillow, but you know, I mean.

Speaker 3 29:52

I credit my son to that because you know he's the tech guy, worked at Zillow for eight years and he's always coming, you know, to me with all this. You know I call it something else, but the stuff.

Speaker 3 30:02

Yeah, and, and uh my nephew, Michael, and they're saying, oh, we got it, this is what we've got to do. This and I'm, you know, I mean four years ago he was getting in front of our, our group, but really, I'm sure upsetting some of the agents because he was pounding where this business was going and how important that those testimonials and understanding how to use CRMs and how to, how to deliver a service, uh, to people was, and and and. If a service to people was, and if you have had anybody on that has ever been to any of my training classes, they've probably mentioned to you that I have said that online signatory.

Speaker 3 30:36

You know, docusign for lack of a better way to describe it is the best and worst thing that's ever happened to our industry, and the reason being is, you know, I can't tell you how many times when DocuSign first and I a lot of people can't believe this, but we used to actually sit down with a client and they would sign it right, uh, with ink, and, and you would explain to them the contract and roll out multiple.

Speaker 2 30:57

They'd set out multiple pens. What was going to happen?

Speaker 3 31:00

And and and and. So you know that that would be an hour, an hour and a half process. So you know, one of my pet peeves is there's no way in hell that somebody can receive a DocuSign at 10, 14 am and you get all 16 pages and all the addendums and everything down at 10, 18, right In two minutes.

Speaker 3 31:21

And you know, some of that lends itself to maybe how the consumers out there see us as an industry, right, it's like you know some of that lends itself to maybe how the consumers out there see us as an industry, right, it's like you know, what does this guy do? I mean, you know, show me two houses again.

Speaker 3 31:31

There's a lot more that goes behind the scene and you know there used to be a saying in the real estate business you don't want to be a secret agent, and that's not just in terms of visibility. That's, in educating your clients as to what it is that you do, that's, in educating your clients as to what it is that you do.

Speaker 3 31:46

Too many people are too to get too good at the business and they don't educate people. As this is what I'm taking care of, this is what I'm doing, and if you do that, it's real simple for the prospect to think, yeah, anybody can do this, sure.

Speaker 2 31:58

Provide your value. I wanted to. I wanted to pick on that a little bit, though, too, because this is something I've had so many conversations of, and I really felt that it was the you know, the push button get mortgage thing when rocket mortgage released that a few years back, right, that was like just the, that was the rocket fuel for for this, for this industry, and it was like everybody could get things as fast as possible.

Real Estate Market Trends and Insights

Speaker 2 32:18

And it's funny you touched on the doc you sign thing. It's like there's this, there's this, this talk of like mistrust, yet you're willing to buy a house and sign every line on this document that's 16 pages long, in two minutes, but there's this concern of, oh, we don't trust our realtor. They contradict one another. If you're willing to sign every single line, that would represent to me the ultimate trust. It's just super interesting because and obviously for me on the inspection side of things, like we poke and prod, like we're always going to be somewhat of an analog service industry in this world, that's going almost completely digital. Sure, I would. I don't, I don't. I use the example all the time. I don't trust my.

Speaker 2 32:59

I backed into more things with a backup camera on my car than I ever did before. I had a car with a backup camera. I never back into anything and it's that trust, or that almost false sense of trust, and I think that you touched on all those things. It's just so crazy. We're in the most equitable market we've ever seen before, and we live in one of the most litigious states in the country and it's like all these things are just building and building and building. So it's interesting, because I love that you said it. It's not just that that buyer broker agreement is no longer, it's not that, that's not the linchpin that's holding this whole thing together, it's it's everything that adds up to it and leads up to the whole way.

Speaker 3 33:38

Well, you know, and part of it is you know the thoughts behind it, right, and I've read all different types of reviews and interviews on people and probably the best one is I think it was last Friday or maybe Saturday Inman had an article where they interviewed one of the attorneys and he was talking about really what it was they were trying to accomplish. And there's, you know, a lot of us in the real estate industry. We've heard this word steering, right, and we think of it in only one way, but what the plaintiffs were arguing for was, you know, realtors steering, you know, for a higher commission if one was 2% or X percent and one was.

Speaker 3 34:16

X percent plus five or whatever. That the realtors would, you know, try and sell that property. And anybody that's ever been at you know, worked with buyers. You know you're just just trying to find something that'll work for them, right, and and, uh, you know so, so, so I, I think the whole idea behind it and then you know, if you listen to other people, I think that they know they're wrong uh, that it's going to bring, you know, home prices down. You know, if that were true, then you know, then every house that sold with a solar system would automatically sell for 50,000 more. Every house with a pool would sell for 50,000 more.

Speaker 3 34:47

We all know that it that doesn't happen, right. You know you once, once it's in, you might get a little bit more for it, right? But you know, if I'm come out and talk to you about selling your house and I say, now that you know the we're not going to have to pay the realtor as much, you're going to, you know you're, you're probably not going to get as much for your house and the first thing you know you would do is you would thank me and you would send me on my way and you'd talk to another realtor because really, your house is worth what your house is worth. It's going to appraise for what it's going to appraise for and everything is market driven.

Speaker 1 35:17

Yeah, and a hundred percent.

Speaker 3 35:18

I mean I sold a house in 1982, 15 and a half percent FHA G, 15 and a half percent FHA GPM, buy down with six points and in those days the sellers used to pay the points right and and you know it was, the market was terrible, it was terrible but people still had to move.

Speaker 1 35:33

And people still do. I mean, I've had that conversation in the mortgage world the last couple of years. Now that we're two years into this shift, as things have changed, is people held on long enough right when it's not like hey, three months ago my neighbor got a 3% rate.

Speaker 1 35:45

Now that same person has had two kids, or they've had a divorce, or they've had a sickness, or they've got a job opportunity and they've held on to the reality that no longer exists. And now their new reality is I've got to move, or I really need to move, or my life would be different, and this environment is not going to change. And so, in that same vein, I think you're seeing people starting to wake up to, okay, things have changed, and they're kind of here to stay for a little bit. And so, in that same vein, you're going to see, I think, a shift in this industry of how people are going to start looking at that.

Speaker 3 36:15

I agree with that. I mean, there used to be an old saying in the business that everything in California real estate wise starts in San Diego and works its way North, and it's like Rico Rivera, yeah, you know so. So what used to happen? And you know, I mean, san Jose got to a point in San Jose has always had an affordability index at least in my career uh, 20% or lower.

Speaker 3 36:33

I mean if there was, there was times it was 17, 16, you know, and Sacramento always, you know, for years, had that 25 to 30 to 33%, you know percent. And now if you look at Sacramento, you know Sacramento is probably in that 18, 19% as well. So what happens to your point? Uh, and and it, you know it, it could be good or bad. I'm not, I'm not sure, I'm not smart enough to know the answer to that, but but most people um want what they can afford, and so what most people look at is what's, you know, what's my mortgage payment?

Speaker 2 37:04

Sure, the old ad is you don't buy a house, you buy a mortgage payment.

Speaker 3 37:07

Yeah, and so I think you know, like one of the things we train on all the time is, you know, in our marketplace and like in Rockland, there's some really nice areas in Roseville where we are here right now. Uh, that were, the homes are a little older but they don't have Malarus. Yep, you know the the there is no HOA, yep, right. And people say, well, what's, what's, what's that?

Speaker 1 37:31

That's not a big deal.

Speaker 3 37:31

Well, yeah, it is, it's three or $400 a month.

Speaker 3 37:33

Sure, absolutely, because most people buy, uh, emotionally and then justify it logically after the fact Right, and so what we're trying to do is is we're doing the same thing here now that I was doing in the in the eighties and nineties in San Jose, because it's always been difficult to get people into homes and in Silicon Valley it's always been expensive. So, you know it, it is um, you know, you're right, and and we're we're at a time now where, if people can figure out how to get what it is that they want, like a good friend of mine he's, he, I grew up with him, he's very successful and he was. He's looking at a home out in Loomis and a very high end home, and he was asking me what I thought about the price, and I said the price doesn't matter. And he said, well, of course it matters. And I said, well, yeah, I mean, you don't want to overpay, you know, but at the same time, at some point you get to a place where you're not looking for a place to live, you're looking for a reward.

Speaker 3 38:22

Sure, you know, you've worked your ass off all your life and you know, and, like I say, we grew up right across the street from each other If you want the house, I know you can afford it. Well, that also trickles down to, to not just these multi, you know these. What would an LA? They call an exotic home, a high end home. Uh, you know, here we just call them a higher end home. Right, and and uh that? Because I mean, unless I'm missing something, you know you're looking at nice homes in Roseville and Rockland and Sacramento and Natomas, different markets, we work in 600?.

Speaker 2 38:53

You know, 556, 700? The amount of half a million dollar starter homes is crazy, it's a lot of money.

Speaker 3 39:00

So yeah, you know, but I do think the human mind has a way of coming to terms with things and that's what's happened. I think everybody realizes that the opportunity to get that two and a half or two point you know, two and three quarter loan is probably gone.

Speaker 2 39:13

Yeah, at least in my lifetime. Yeah, you're starting to see things like you're starting to see a 40 year mortgage be kind of re-entered, something that's been around for a while. But now, obviously, in order to get that monthly payment more affordable, I mean, shoot, banks probably love it right, 10 more years of interest collection. I mean, sure, yeah, absolutely Temporary buy downs and things like that and that's.

Speaker 1 39:30

I would say from the mortgage side too, is is looking. When you talk about a value add that agents can mount, maybe now on the buyer side more than ever, need to proposition to the people that they're going to serve is I can't tell you how many first timetime homebuyers have no idea what Melrose is. They have no idea. Okay, there's an HOA, I have to bring my trash can. Well, you know. Also, it costs you $300 a month. Or you know, I'll get something cheaper, I'll just get a condo.

Speaker 1 39:53

Well, that's very likely not going to save you money either, and here's why.

Speaker 1 39:56

And so I think now and it's always been important but you're for agents that work for you or just in general, to prove their value by really making themselves experts in the details that matter to the, especially the first time home buyer that just gets on Zillow. They look at the price, they look right there on the little calculator this estimate, you know this estimate, or what the mortgage is going to be, and then they go forward in that. And I think it's a really good opportunity for people to. I love partnering with with agents locally and then having the opportunity to kind of serve them as a team and I just the ones that I see do it really well. They nurture the first time home buyer and they educate them well and they do it early. And so I think more than ever that's just going to become super important because I think some first time home buyers have just thought, like a lot of them didn't even know historically that the seller paid for the agent. You know that that was even the norm, yeah.

Speaker 3 40:48

There's, there's. You know you're hitting the nail on the head. I, a lot of you, know a lot happened during COVID and one of the things that happened is and it was not expected was we had this crazy housing market where I called it the name that tune market. And because what happened is that wasn't just about the price, but people, all of a sudden, instead of a 30 day escrow, I can close that house in 21 days. And somebody had said, oh, my client could do it in 17. I mean, you basically had homes that had never been inspected, there was nothing going on with them, they were 40 years old and people said that they could close the deal in 10 days.

Speaker 2 41:23

Oh, and we're waving disclosures left and right, waving contingencies, Everything's just. Oh, money was so cheap.

Speaker 3 41:30

Yeah Well, you guys come in and you know, and people need to understand this I I I remember sitting with a group of very, very well-known real estate attorneys and when the disclosure thing first came out, and and these are people in the Bay area and one of them stood up and said, listen, if I'm a real estate broker meaning agents as well and I have a client that doesn't want an inspection or a seller that won't pay, if I'm the broker, I pay for it.

Speaker 1 41:56

Because disclosure is that important Right.

Speaker 3 42:01

This, uh, you know, recent, not not just mine, but you know I'll I'll speak to sellers and buyers on behalf of my agents and explain to them that that, uh, you know, as you mentioned earlier, california is the most litigious state. Uh, you know, 90% of all real estate lawsuits happen in California.

Speaker 1 42:16

Really.

Speaker 3 42:16

Most of them are in Southern California, by the way, but but you know it, it it is, it is uh a scary thing and and so I think that, uh, uh, you know that whole COVID market and we all know it. You know there was one house and 46 offers or whatever, and everybody was doing things that no sane person would do, right, and now those properties are coming back, right, and and the buyers are upset, even though you know they signed a thousand waivers and everything else which you know. Let's face it, when you're buying a home, there's so much, there are so many documents, there's so much to try and understand in such a short period of time that it can be overwhelming.

Speaker 1 42:52

Yeah, truly I want to.

Speaker 2 42:53

I want to touch on this real quick, because we kind of just hinted at it but we didn't get in. What's your opinion as far as buyers and sellers agents acting as fiduciaries? When you, when a buyer goes directly to the listing agent to purchase a home, how can that person honor their fiduciary? You know responsibilities to both sides, right.

Speaker 3 43:17

We used to call it the thin red line. Uh, it, it, it. And really, as as things have become more and more complicated, it's become harder to do, Right.

Real Estate Agent Dual Agency Discussion

Speaker 3 43:25

And and uh, uh, you know it's one thing for a builder rep, because really a builder, you know, if you're working for a builder, the builder is is your employer, um, but the buyer comes in and you, you know, those people have real estate licenses, right. But it's different because in terms of defects and everything you know, the builders do a great job, at least the builders that I've worked with. You know, in terms of disclosure and that type of thing, the the ability for a buyer and a seller I mean an agent to represent both the buyer and a seller. That was, you know. I mean that that was challenged years ago, back in the 80s, and that's partially why the agency agreement came out right.

Speaker 3 44:04

It needed to be made very clear and you know you use the word fiduciary and of course that's the highest possible. You know all even above honesty, right, because without fiduciary you still have the duty to fair and honest dealing. But it's very difficult to do. I do think that this settlement, the way it comes down, it'll drive more people to go directly, perhaps, to the listing agent. I know listing agents out there that do a lot of listings that really don't want to represent both Really good agents, and so it's going to be another period of adjustment. I don't think you're going to see that go away. I mean, there are some states where they're already. You know it's not allowed, right? California is. You would think that one of those states would have been California.

Speaker 3 44:55

But, again, it was a settlement of sorts that was reached before at least what I was told between the California Bar Association and California Association. I was way back in the day and where, because you know, if you're from an attorney's position, I mean the attorneys look at it and go. Are you nuts?

Speaker 2 45:10

It's impossible.

Speaker 3 45:11

You can't do that.

Speaker 2 45:12

Right, it's an easy fight for them. You would imagine. Hold on a second.

Speaker 3 45:20

Yeah, so you know the disclosure laws. Uh, you know, most of the things that we see come back on an agent's whether, you know, regardless of what company you're with, you know the agent could do everything. You know, great it. Just it happens Right. And you're right when, when there's a uh, not only a dual agent, because, remember, the agent is the broker, but two agents that work for the broker. Uh, agent, that does, you know, represents both the buyer and the seller. And as companies have gotten larger, you have, you have more of that. But but I, I, you know, I, I, when I was selling houses in San Jose, property in San Jose, I sold a lot of real estate and I was a farmer and my wife and I and and we, we had a lot of people come directly to us. It wasn't they were trying to bypass their agent, they just didn't have an agent.

Speaker 3 46:01

Or didn't know any better right and they saw the signs and they'd call us. Well, you know, as things change, I mean that may be the next thing that you see. You know some regulation around.

Speaker 2 46:14

Yeah, I think it's the biggest value add for the buyer representation. Right there is. How can somebody who's representing the other side, trying to sell their property for top dollar, get you the best possible deal? Because their intentions have already been clearly defined between them and the seller of the property. So how can you both win.

Speaker 3 46:36

You wouldn't go to a boxing match if your opponent brought the referee right, like just kind of well, you know, and it's, it's, if you going back to the analogy of the of the law firm, you know, I mean you know if if you've been wrong.

Speaker 3 46:47

You don't want the same firm representing you. You know the, the, the, you know the whole thought process behind you. Well, the seller will say yes or no and the buyer will say yes or no. And as again, as things have gotten more complicated, especially when you talk about the loan world and the contract. I mean when I first started, the contract was one page. Literally. You'd write there, buyer to get a conventional loan. Or, if you were really smart, you would write in there, buyer to get a conventional loan rate not to exceed 12%. Yeah, I mean um and and now you know you you've got those 16 pages plus all the addendums. You know I spend a lot of time on Tuesdays. Every Tuesday I do my, my, uh, what does the contract say? Class? And? And one of the harder, you know the, some of the harder documents for even my experienced agents to understand are the contingent offer you know, and also the seller's replacement property contingency, and, and, and, as people are becoming more and more concerned.

Speaker 3 47:46

where you know, in a hot market, if I sell my house, how do I know I'm going to be able to find?

Speaker 2 47:50

another. Where the hell am I going to go?

Speaker 3 47:51

So they're. So they're looking for protections and those are the type of things and you both hit the nail on the head a little while ago, and it's kind of what I had said earlier why teachers do so well in this business former teachers is the ability to educate people on options you can do this, you can do this, you can do this or also explaining to them what it is you're going to do to protect them. I mean, for years, I've always told every seller on a listing presentation, every offer that comes in, I'm going to do three things.

Speaker 1 48:20

If there's a loan involved.

Building Client Relationships Through Communication

Speaker 3 48:21

I'm going to call the lender. I'm going to ask them three questions. When did you first meet these people, cause I'm looking? Are they a serious buyer or did they just call the lender last night at midnight?

Speaker 3 48:28

That's a great question have you been able to verify any of their information? Right, if you've met with them two weeks ago? I mean, you have your credit report in, do you have a verification of income? You know where they're going to get their down payment? I mean, what do you have in your hands? And then the last one. But I always tell my sellers I very rarely get it what's their FICO score? Right, but? But I usually get the first two. And then when I present the offers to my sellers and again, the things that we we harp on all the time and I maybe I'm using the wrong word, but I try to get my agents to understand is there's a difference between representing buyers and sellers, or representing clients, and too many people see a buyer as a buyer and the goal is for that person to become your client.

Speaker 3 49:09

Sure A hundred percent, and it's the same thing with a seller, and I don't think you get that when you change, send the, the the uh DocuSign over at 10, 18 and it comes back at 10, 20. I think what you're going to see is people reverting back to going out and sitting in front of people and explaining to them the process, cause it's it's, it's hell, it's complicated for us.

Speaker 1 49:30

I think that's a great thing. I mean, I think it's it's more work, but I think it's at a time when everybody's hungry to work.

Speaker 1 49:34

That's not a bad thing, um, but I think it's at a time when everybody's hungry to work, it's not a bad thing, but I think it's going to bring in a world where, you know, I don't want to sound like my grandmother here, but I feel like we've just gotten to a point where there's so you know, such a need and a longing for connection with people, because we've gotten to such a digital world where you're going to sign everything in one second. And you know, you look at everything on social media and I think that people really do crave to have some of that interaction again, and I think it's an opportunity for realtors, lenders, everybody really to get in, build relationships with people, to show them I am going to help you through this. I'm not just this transactional person earning my X percent. This is what you need, and every buyer is different, right? Like some of them, I that's one of the first questions I ask hey, have you done this before? Yeah, I can give you as much information as you want, but I also don't want to bore you, and some of those people even repeat buyers. They want to know every little detail. They want to know you know they'll. They'll ask all these little minutia questions, and that's great. That's what they need.

Speaker 1 50:39

What they really need and that's where you develop some of that sales skill too is you listen to them, you find out who they are, what they need and what they're looking for, and then even much more so on the realtor side than the lender you have an opportunity to help them. Like you said earlier, you bring the ideas to them. This is maybe some avenues that we could go. Here's a way that we can make your payment fit in. Or maybe these are some areas where, because rates are at six and a half percent, where we save some money, a couple hundred dollars a month. These are some areas you may not have considered, but might, you know, check some boxes for you. So I think it's a big opportunity. It doesn't mean it's not a huge challenge, though.

Speaker 3 51:12

Right, right, well, you know, and what you're touching on and it's you know the old saying, you know if you can become a trusted advisor. You know, years ago that was an overused term. Everybody was a trusted advisor. But where it came from is you know, most, most people, whether they be a buyer or seller, they don't do this all that often, right? And they don't know what questions to ask.

Speaker 3 51:33

Sure and so so part of it is is, you know, when we, when we go through our training program and I know some of my two agents they probably get a little burned out. But you know I try instilling them. You know you have to. You know Tom Spear, that first day when he took me out and dropped me off, you know I was inside and I'm not going to get emotional about this, but I'm sitting there with him you know and you know you've got to remember 1978.

Speaker 1 51:57

You know, and and uh, you know you gotta remember 1978, he, you know he's wearing the big lapels and he's got this big old white tie on and I was in my angel flight, you know suit and my family shoes and uh.

Speaker 3 52:11

So he was always teaching me and um. So he said I'll hire you a kid, but you got to do everything, I say, and I didn't know what an independent contractor was or an employee, and I didn't care. I mean he, finally somebody said they'll hire me.

Speaker 3 52:22

And uh, and I said, of course, you know, I've always worked. I've been working since I was 13. Oh, freddy's cafe, I was the kid that did every all the mode, everybody's long, whatever. And um, and so I went outside. It was a big parking lot and I'm standing out there. When he comes outside, and um, he says why aren't you in my car? And I said, uh, I don't, I don't know what car is yours. And he looked at me and he threw me I don't know if you guys probably don't. There's these things, they're little peachy notepads.

Speaker 1 52:55

Oh yeah, they fit in your pocket.

Speaker 3 52:57

And he threw me one and he said and I suppose you don't have a damn pen either? And I said, no, he threw me a pen. So I want you to write this down, and I'm only going to tell you these things once. I don't like repeating myself and I, of course you know I'm still trying to figure out how I'm going to get paid.

Importance of Listening and Explaining

Speaker 3 53:12

I didn't know how people got paid and and, uh, he said uh, the power in this business, if you want to be very, very successful, the power belongs to the person that has the courage to ask the questions, not always to the person that has the answers. And if you're going to work with me, you better get good at asking questions. And I, I was writing as fast as I could and, uh, the next day I did ask him. You know, can you repeat?

Speaker 1 53:39

that again.

Speaker 2 53:39

You know you started off fast.

Speaker 3 53:41

But what he was trying to tell me is you know he'd been in the business a long time. You know he actually had a law degree. You know he was just a special person and, for whatever reason, he took me under his wing and he was always giving me these little lessons. But I would hear him on the phone with his clients and I was listening, I would listen to him, and this is the other thing.

Speaker 3 53:59

Remember, if you're a broker or manager and people are watching you, they're learning from you and if you're a top agent, if you're a team leader, if you're a squad leader, whatever you are, people are listening and I would listen to him, you know, and I would.

Speaker 3 54:16

I, he would ask questions and then he would wait for the response and there would be like a an uncomfortable second or two before he would respond. Because I have a tendency, because, you know, I'm, I'm, I was built, tom was pretty calm, I'm, I'm not, and, uh, he would respond back and I could see the people or hear, you know, you could tell on the phone that they were really paying attention to what he said. And and again, you know, coming back to what we talked about a little while ago, and I've, I've had the privilege of being involved in some of the top agents in the United States, you know, maybe the world, and when I talk to those people, whether they're in Beverly Hills or Newport Beach or Silicon Valley, um, you know, they're, they're, they're, they're very good at listening. Um, you know they're, they're, they're, they're very good at listening, and then they're, they're very good at explaining the answer.

Speaker 1 55:03

They don't just give an answer right.

Speaker 2 55:05

They explain the answer, the why, the how.

Speaker 3 55:07

Yeah, and I and I and I think you know if, if, uh, you know when, when the time finally comes up for me to hang up my cleats, you know, I would hope that people, uh, that I've had the privilege of working with all these years, you know, will say you know he was. He was real good at explaining.

Speaker 1 55:23

Well, they do, cause we've had a few folks on this show that have said that and and I don't think either of them worked for you at the time that they were on the show. I guess this is a like a feeder system. And now they do.

Speaker 2 55:35

Thank you. I have a question.

Speaker 1 55:36

No, absolutely. You know, it sounds like Tom is a pretty impressive person in your life and I find myself now that I'm a dad. I think back to like, oh wow, I say things that come out of my mouth and I hear my own father or my own mother. Now that you've been in this game for so long, do you feel like you've emulated him, or do you find yourself with these newer agents tossing them the pen and the peachy, or do you find yourself doing some Tom-esque things now as a as the other side?

Importance of Communication and Integrity

Speaker 3 56:07

Yeah, I, I, uh, and, and my son, you know he's, he's funny because on the Tuesday he and I run the meetings and and, uh, my, my portion is called coach's corner and you know he always tells me to dad, you can't go too long on this one. Today, you know we only have so much time, you know, because I have a tendency, like a lot of 65 year olds I guess, to ramble on, you know, and I, I love telling my stories and. But it's funny because it's kind of like what I was saying when you were talking about meeting with prospective, uh, borrowers. Right, they don't know what question to ask and once you start explaining to them, they actually you can see them kind of get into it. You're like what's next, what's next? And it's the same thing, you know, again, being a broker, where you know you're trying to impart this knowledge and you're, you're, you know you're, you're asking the power above. You know, please give me the strength to help this person, you know, I know she can do it, I, I just I don't know what's missing, right, but but what I try to do is I try to deliver my messaging when I, when I cause I I do talk to a lot of them, you know, after hours, on the phone or at my little desk there in the corner, and each person I try to talk to, cause I'm pretty good at reading people after all these years, so I try to to share in a way that I think they'll understand best.

Speaker 3 57:16

Right, yeah, and and uh, but yeah, I, I Tom, had a big impact on my life. Uh, bill Moles had a big Bob Moles. You know, I mean all the guys that I worked with, uh, but, but I I do think that um, uh, a lot of brokers and managers and team leaders, uh, they, they need to look in the mirror and ask themselves are they? I used to tell my managers if you're not willing to train these people brand new people you don't have a right to hire them, because they're going to fail.

Speaker 1 57:43

Yeah, it's the business is too hard.

Speaker 3 57:45

If you're not willing to pick up that phone at eight o'clock on Saturday and answer their question, you know you probably got to do something else.

Speaker 1 57:51

Sure, and I found, in the different things I've done in my life, like there's nothing. You have your internal drive, you know, you have your motivations, your systems and your self-discipline, and and we all range in that but there's, in my life at least, nothing better than a great mentor, somebody that truly, that sometimes believes in you before you believe in yourself. They maybe see the talent or the uh, the angle in which you can uh, make something happen. They they've done it before. It's so awesome to to be like man this happen. They they've done it before. It's so awesome to to be like man. This is my bonfire, like you talked about. But I know to you, this is you. You empathize with me that this is a bonfire, but you're telling me it's not. That's a great thing to trust, and like you're going to lead me through all these changes, right, you've been in this 46 years. Um, you know cell phones, fax machines, uh, docu sign social media.

Speaker 2 58:36

The actual book. What was that called the Thomas?

Speaker 3 58:39

Guide. I go back further than that. So when I first started, what would happen, believe it or not, if you were in a real estate office Monday through Friday? In front of your office, there would be a little thing from the MLS.

Speaker 3 58:52

And it was the listings that came out in the sales and they were perforated corners and you'd cut them and you'd put them in these little books and you know, and that's how you showed property Right. And so I was in San Jose, so we had North Valley, you know, which was basically the Barry S area. We had East side, evergreen, you know, cambrian, you had all these different areas and but, yeah, we would show people. We had the Hanes, you know the, the, the, the bat books, and and you know it, just it, it's evolved a lot. I mean most all of it for the better. Uh, I do think that, uh, and, and if any of my newer agents listen to this, they're going to laugh because they know it's one of my pet peeves is, you know, uh, don't text, don't email, pick up the damn phone and call them if you can't go to their house and see them sure you know, uh, you'll have a much better communication and you'll find that you'll get through things more.

Speaker 3 59:42

You know, because you know, every now and then one of my new agents, on her her first or second deal, will say you know what am I going to? You know, the repair, the repairs are so much blah blah. I said, well, you know we, we got to see if we can work it out. It's kind of what we get paid for, yeah we're here to make this happen.

Speaker 1 59:56

And I'll text him. I'll text my client right now.

Speaker 3 59:59

No, no you're not going to text your client right now? You can pick up the phone and you're going to talk to him. And if you need me to, I'll you know, just call her. Call him right here and I'll you know, I'll make sure that they hear the right things.

Speaker 1 1:00:09

But but, no, it's it and that's huge.

Speaker 3 1:00:11

Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, it is it and it is, you know, one of my pet peeves that I think people have forgotten how to communicate effectively, and it's, you know, because of this damn iPhone you know I mean it's a great tool, don't get me wrong, apple you know. But at the same time it's too easy to cop out. Especially now, sorry, the appraisal didn't come in, you know.

Speaker 1 1:00:32

Call the lender. It's his fault.

Speaker 3 1:00:34

You're going to send me a damn text, you know pick up the phone call me and say hey, I don't know what we're going to do here, jeff, but I think you're 150 K sitting in a deposit box right now.

Speaker 1 1:00:41

Well, like you said. That's, that's the opportunity. You said great agents Don't just give you an answer, they explain Right.

Speaker 1 1:00:46

And so I see that as an again another opportunity and these are new opportunities, right, like it's not like real estate changed overnight, completely Right, that's great Service. Great service has always been that it really the whole market hasn't changed. There's some, some avenues that may be of change, but that's an awesome opportunity to say, hey, okay, this isn't great news. Now what we want to, here's our options, here's where we go. Maybe we were checking with a lender, maybe we can rework numbers, maybe we go back to the seller, but there's a different way to do that, as we didn't get what we want. Now you figure it out.

Speaker 1 1:01:16

That's not the overused term of trusted advisor, but just to loop back on that for a sec, dan and I had somebody it might have even been Jackie a couple weeks ago. I just said if there was one thing, if you're a new buyer, my advice would be, whether it's a lender or a realtor, is to hire somebody that you trust. And again, I don't think that happens overnight. Now. I think there's ability to maybe you build a persona through Zillow reviews or you build a persona through social media and people get to, maybe, kind of inorganically, get to know you.

Speaker 1 1:01:46

But I think if there's one thing that really now is again a bigger opportunity than ever is you can be a trusted person and people can get to know you. You listen to them, you build that trust, because there are so many things that can go wrong. There's so many things that can go right but you just don't know. You're even the wool's being pulled over your eyes, fleeced or paying points. You have no idea what that means, or steered, whether you think you are or not. I mean, I think hiring somebody that's obviously skilled but certainly that you can trust, because there's going to. In every transaction, even the smooth ones, there's going to be a point at which they look at you as the realtor or the lender and say, well, what do you think, or what does this mean, and there's no way for them to know other than I got to. I got to listen to what this person says.

Speaker 3 1:02:26

Yeah, you know it's funny, because what you're basically talking about is honesty, you know and integrity integrity honesty, you know it's. It's funny cause my agents, will you know the team come in and one of them will say, oh, I met so-and-so and she told me to tell you hi. And you know, she said you know, you're like the greatest manager she ever. You know you, you hear those things and that's kind of what keeps you going.

Speaker 1 1:02:46

Sure.

Legacy of Integrity in Real Estate

Speaker 3 1:02:46

Right, but but I, I tell my nephew Michael and my son Colby all the time that, uh, uh, you know cause they, you know they asked me. You know, well, you're not leaving, are you? And I don't know, you know, I, I'm not I I, I like doing what I'm doing, but I said again, when the time comes, I, I, I, I want to leave with my uh reputation intact so don't mess it up, boys and the way that you do that is you.

Speaker 3 1:03:10

Just you know, you always. You know the great john douglas who had a company down in southern california. His mantra was just always do the right thing yeah, always, always do the right thing.

Speaker 1 1:03:17

It's as simple, but it's not easy, right?

Speaker 2 1:03:19

It's simple, not easy. Yeah, a hundred percent, that's awesome.

Speaker 1 1:03:22

Yep, Tell me really quick, and we're going a little long here, so I appreciate your time. But how? How is it working with those guys? So you've been in the business 46 years Zillow tech background, working on reviews. How does that dynamic work? Because I've heard it's really fun.

Speaker 3 1:03:41

But maybe you've got a different take. No, it is, you know. And and uh, colby, you know, obviously grew up my wife's also a broker. I don't know if you guys know that, or not yeah and uh. That's how I met her. I was at a seminar in 1981 that her dad was putting on in Las Vegas. And uh, as the story goes, her mom saw me in the class and went up and told her.

Speaker 3 1:03:58

Hey, there's a cute boy in a class, right, and you know, 41 years, like 42 years later, here we are. But I think that, um, you know, uh, colby grew up around the business. A lot of people don't know he's been licensed about 20 years. And, um, you know, our daughter, uh, she also grew up around the business. She's in a real estate related industry as well.

Speaker 3 1:04:20

But but with Michael, you know, Michael, even when he was a young kid, he used to always my, my, he always would put on a little suit and have a little briefcase, right, and he was going to work. He was going to work with uncle Jeff, and so it's, it's kind of cute. I, you know it was, he was, he was, he was a cute kid anyway. But you know, and then you know, kobe, but, yeah, you know, I do. Sometimes I think that they look at me and it's funny because when I was, you know, when we had Contempo, bill Moles, bob and Kevin's dad was kind of you know me at that time and he would tell us things and we would kind of roll our eyes. And, you know, about three months, three years later, greg Mackress and I'd look at each other and go, shit, how did he know there's not as dumb as I thought.

Speaker 1 1:05:01

Dan's got a teenager. You got a 14 year old daughter.

Speaker 2 1:05:04

I get multiple eye rolls a day.

Speaker 3 1:05:07

But no, it's, it's fun. You know I'm I'm very fortunate. I have two nephews in the business, a niece and obviously my son business, a niece and obviously my son, and you know just a lot of kind of quasi relatives that you know, people, friends, children that have come into business over the years. But yeah, you know, I think that the one thing that we do really really well at Culbertson Gray is we focus on production. You know we're on production. You know, um, we're obviously a part of EXP great company. Say nothing, nothing about it. I mean, I, you know, I we're, we're recruiters, we recruit to build production within our team and if we happen to run into people that want to become a part of the company and they're in, uh, you know, turlock or wherever they are, you know obviously we'll do what we can to bring them in.

Speaker 3 1:05:56

but but uh, everything we do is is production based you know, the the you know uh nurturing that account we have with Zillow and it. You know, I mean we're fortunate, we, we? We make no bones about it, we're extremely fortunate to have it. Uh, but but uh, every everything is is is production based, everything.

Speaker 1 1:06:22

And uh, and doing it the right way. You know, it's like John Douglas said, you know it's just just do the right thing. Well, it sounds like. You know, a buddy of mine always talked about success. He goes you know, I'm going to keep pulling that lever until it stops paying out. And it sounds like doing a good job, being a professional and having integrity has served you pretty well.

Speaker 3 1:06:30

It's funny and I tell people that I, I, you know, I, I've been fortunate, been fortunate, I've, you know, I've done well in the industry and I could have probably done better if I was willing to bend a little bit and and not, you know, look the other way and and I just, it just wasn't something I was ever willing to do well, that's how your resume is coming in here.

Speaker 2 1:06:50

Yeah, you could also do a lot worse, right yeah, you get caught, been in the wrong direction, and next thing you know you're now, you're not now, you're not well off just you know the words are, just don't don't do it.

Speaker 3 1:07:00

Just just don't, and and you know. I'm looking over there at uh seven habits of highly effective people your book on your bookshelf, Stephen Covey.

Speaker 2 1:07:06

That's my absolute favorite. It's a.

Speaker 3 1:07:08

It's a great, it's a Bible you know, as far as I. Amazon now used for $6. It's worth about $600,000.

Speaker 1 1:07:19

Dan knew that you liked that and he put that on the shelf right before you came in here. There's still a lot of subliminal messages.

Speaker 3 1:07:25

But yeah, just do the right thing. And you know, I mean, the industry is going to go through a paradigm shift. There's no doubt about it. We will get through it. And you know, I tell we just we brought three brand new people in last week and they're both, all three of them are two of them. One of them was there, two of them were on Zoom and they're watching and I'm thinking to myself because I was going through the new, the lawsuit, and Colby was talking about it, and I look at one of them and his name's Ryan, and I say, ryan, I bet you wish you would have got your insurance license instead about right, now, right, and then he says, well, insurance is a trouble too right, not in this state it's kind of like you know we got we got a storm here happening and we'll get through the storm.

Speaker 3 1:08:03

We got this new uh nar settlement that we're going to have to understand better, and and then, of course, the insurance challenges that we have out there right now and then you know people longing for that.

Speaker 3 1:08:14

Uh, two and a half, three percent I I gotta be honest with you about 1995 96, 96, I thought we'd never see single digit, you know again, and I mean that was kind of the saying then. And of course you know everybody's like I think they'll get down to eight or nine, two, two and a half, two and a quarter, I mean come on, my wife and I.

Speaker 2 1:08:30

my wife and I bought our first house at five and a half percent.

Speaker 3 1:08:33

My wife and I when we bought our first house together, it was 13% In 06, I think it was 5.5%, and I don't think we've ever owned a mortgage higher than that. Well, you know 20 years.

Speaker 2 1:08:47

You're fortunate. Yeah, 100%. My mom, who works in title and escrow in the Bay Area, said 5%. Where do you sign? You can't get that loan fast enough.

Speaker 3 1:08:56

Oh no. Which area is the Bay Area sign you can't get that loan fast enough.

Speaker 2 1:08:59

Oh no, what area is it I?

Speaker 3 1:09:00

grew up in Half Moon Bay. Okay, I love Half Moon Bay, yeah, yeah, we had a great office over there, a great manager in Half Moon Bay, so, but no, it's. You know, it's just kind of finishing up here. I appreciate you guys having me on and you know just kind of imparting.

Speaker 3 1:09:13

you know, based on all these years of experience, it's just doing the right thing, working hard. It's kind of like I said at the beginning you know you don't have to be the smartest and you know I'm living proof you don't have to be the best looking. But just outwork everybody. Hey, she picked you out, okay, her mom, picked you.

Speaker 1 1:09:30

That's all that matters. I heard that part of the story.

Speaker 3 1:09:32

Your wife picked you. Okay. I don't know if she did, that's okay. My mother liked me.

Speaker 1 1:09:37

That's a good mother-in-law Well you know, clearly you still have a passion for it after all these years too, and I think that anybody that's going to have the staying power like that, you know you can't be just money motivated, you can't be title If you're truly, you know, still doing this all these years later. I can see it in you here, I can hear about it from the people that we work with, and obviously the production speaks for itself.

Speaker 1 1:09:58

So it's pretty cool to see somebody that, after so many years and this many changes, is still passionate about it and adding a lot of value to not only clients but the people that you're bringing in, cause you know, right now there's people are scrambling to figure out where to go and and get the help that they need Right.

Speaker 3 1:10:12

Yeah, yeah, there's, there's, there's, there's a big need for guidance right now. And uh, cause you know you can see it in the agent's eyes, and I'm not talking about just mine, I, you know, when I see agents at open houses or something, you can tell they're like what the hell you?

Speaker 1 1:10:26

know what's going to happen.

Speaker 3 1:10:26

Yeah, and again, you know we'll work through it. We always do. And and uh, there, there, there, people always need to buy and sell real estate. Yep, it's, it's. It's not getting less complicated, it's getting more complicated. So there will always be a need for someone like us, whether whatever, whatever we're called, I don't know, you know, but but there's going to be a need for for people to to put those transactions together.

Speaker 1 1:10:48

Yeah, that's great well, we can't let you out of here without uh, we ask everybody this, you mentioned you mentioned.

Speaker 2 1:10:54

Your mentor told you to ask good questions. This is our favorite question, so we ask it of every guest who comes on the show, dead or alive, you could be anyone for a day. Who would it be?

Reflecting on Past Self

Speaker 3 1:11:04

You know it's funny, I would probably be a 21, 22 year old me and I would probably tell him to relax a little bit, you know enjoy the ride just enjoy the ride.

Speaker 3 1:11:19

I mean, I, you know, I I was one of those guys seven days a week, you know, and heart problems in my thirties. You know one of those kinds of guys and and I think you know, I think a lot of people, as you know, you both are young men and as you get older, you reflect and you think, you know, yeah, it's worked out. Okay, I should have smelled the roses a little bit more and I mean I heard that a million times. But yeah, that 22, 23-year-old. I would like to just have a little talk with him.

Speaker 2 1:11:47

He turned out okay, yeah, he did. I'd go back give him a hug.

Speaker 1 1:11:52

Well, Jeff, it's been an honor.

Speaker 2 1:11:53

Thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you so much for your time and joining us.

Speaker 3 1:11:58

And we.