Open The Gate
Breaking down Sacramento Real Estate: Our Favorite People, Places and Mindsets
Open The Gate
S2 EP 8: From Bay Area Roots To Mortgage Matchmaker: Kent Smith On Connection, Grit, And Hospitality
We trade holiday-season nostalgia for hard-won lessons on optimism, connection, and doing the work in a bruised market. Kent Smith joins us to explore why hospitality beats speed, how to recruit in a shrinking talent pool, and what tech can and can’t replace.
• seasonal shift, family updates, baby-led weaning
• gratitude mindset, optimism as a daily practice
• Kent’s Bay Area roots, Metallica as identity marker
• parenting in a hyper-online world, teen driving and boundaries
• what a mortgage recruiter does, trust-building and pipeline
• commission reality, discipline as the cost of freedom
• hospitality vs service, emotion as competitive moat
• the phone problem, cold-call and text strategies
• aging loan officer base, missing campus recruiting
• tech acceleration, blockchain, speed vs human trust
• Sacramento quality of life, growth and affordability
• lightning round: Wyatt Earp, values, and consequences
Hi Dan.
SPEAKER_01:I was a delayed little mic.
SPEAKER_03:You really built the anticipation.
SPEAKER_01:Trying to boil it up, and we've been we've been out of the shoot for a couple weeks. This time of year just gets kind of hard, huh? I noticed like we had kind of a lull in shows last year, kind of through this time as well. I'd like to keep starting to shift, starting to shift gears towards the holidays, starting to think about. We were talking our marketing meeting this morning about uh you know really um leaning into abundance and and and generosity and things like that. So uh pretty exciting, pretty exciting stuff on our end. Uh volleyball playoffs have started, fall baseball's coming to an end. Um so yeah, we are uh we're in it for sure. In it. We are in it.
SPEAKER_03:You feel that there's something tangible about this time of year where things shift and people seem to become, I don't know if it's more present, but they certainly become a little bit more nostalgic and softer until the holidays come around and then they beat each other up for presents on the shelf. But uh but before like this period between now and like Thanksgiving, yeah, gratitude, abundance. Like yeah, thank you for being my friend, Dan.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, thank you for being thank you for being my friend, Kaylee. Glorious co-host. Um uh so uh how about a baby roar update? I mean, things have gotta be starting to progress pretty rapidly. Nice.
SPEAKER_03:He's sitting up, he's trying to crawl, he's started solids. Yes. We're doing the baby lead weaning, which is like you basically give them a chunk of food and they're learning the fine motor skills of like feeding themselves. So no pureees.
SPEAKER_01:And the level of You're gonna miss out on some glorious, glorious messes with that.
SPEAKER_03:I'm sure there will be both honestly, it gets pretty gloriously messy. Oh, yeah. They make like ponchos that they have to wear, like they're going to visit Niagara Falls or something. Yeah. And um the the level of anxiety of like having to watch them near choke almost all the time and not intervene is Have you had to do a finger sweep yet?
SPEAKER_01:Not yet. Okay. I only I had to do one. And it was amazing that I didn't kill my kid. Because it was like, I mean, I can actually, God, it's 15 years later, and I can still remember the feeling of what it felt like through that finger sweep. Um but goddamn, it's actually pretty straight. It's exactly what they tell you to do. Just stick your finger in there, sweep it out, and you're good to go.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Well, they have these things called a life vac now. I'm gonna plug this product for a second. Um, it is basically like a plunger that goes over their mouth and you push down and then pull up really hard, and it sucks everything out of their throat. And um, we have one like upstairs, downstairs, I want one in my car. Sounds insanely unenjoyable, but well, uh highly effective. I mean, I is it enjoyable when you're dying on stuff in your throat? I don't know. Um but I did have to ask my wife the question the other day. I'm like, do you know what to do if he's choking? Could you try it on each other?
SPEAKER_01:I think you guys should try it on each other and do a video. Okay, put me on your knee in a 90-degree. Tilt me down. You guys do it on a video and we will share it through the open the gate. I'm gonna do it for you.
SPEAKER_00:I'm gonna do it for you. Oh my god, it's gonna be like early Christmas. So good. So good.
SPEAKER_03:At this moment, our viewers are thinking, why don't they have a YouTube channel yet? Uh why the fuck am I listening to this garbage? Thanks for sticking with us guys. We appreciate you being here.
SPEAKER_01:So yeah, life is life is rolling. Uh we have a uh we have a really, really intriguing guest today.
SPEAKER_03:I'm excited.
SPEAKER_01:Uh he is somewhat of an international man of mystery.
SPEAKER_03:That's a really great way to describe him. I was trying to think of a word and I think socialite, you know, connector.
SPEAKER_01:He's like Robert Redford cool. Oh, yeah. He's got like a very, very with like a Chuck Norris energy about him. I'm trying to see if he's blushing yet. Have we made him blush? Starting to a little. So he is he is just an incredible person. I can't wait for this conversation, so let's get it rolling. Let's go. So goddamn cool. He's one of the only guests we've ever had who did not dance to his own walk-up song.
SPEAKER_03:How do you not?
SPEAKER_01:He just like soaked in it. Just an absolute banger. I was adding it to the Open the Gate playlist. Um we need to get that on Spotify too. Yeah, I've curated it on Apple Music, so it's out there. It is. Um, you're gonna have to be on the Spotify because we don't have Spotify. So with no further ado, Mr. Kent Smith.
SPEAKER_03:Thank you for being here today.
SPEAKER_05:Thank you. Thank you for the invitation. I I was thinking, I was thinking the other day before I got here uh when I met the both of you. Like I know specifically the day that I met you, Kayleigh. Do you remember? Yeah. Uh and I remember when I met Dan too, but I'll lead off with you. Okay. Um so it was a var rep golf tournament at Morgan Creek. Oh. And I think it was 2018. It was a Friday in May. I was pretty drunk that day. And you were You and I were on the board for VAT.
SPEAKER_01:We were on the board.
SPEAKER_03:Great representation. Yeah. What was I doing? You were you were having a good time. Shall we say that was having a very good time. I always have a good time.
SPEAKER_05:Trevor Burrus, and it was raining that day, so it was kind of really the only way to stay relatively more.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I was just doing what the Russians used to do with the Jaegermeister. That's it.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, you were working for Maybomb at the time. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Okay. And so tell me more about this first impression.
SPEAKER_05:I thought it was great. I was um I thought it was great. I thought after the first conversation, because you were outgoing and social and weren't afraid to talk to anybody, and carried a I mean, you carried some swag about yourself. Aaron Ross Powell She's got a magnetic personality.
SPEAKER_03:Didn't know this was Compliment Caitlyn Day, guys. Yeah. Leaning into it.
SPEAKER_05:No, I remember that day very, very, very well.
SPEAKER_03:Thank you. Yeah, very well. You're welcome. Glad I made a first impression. What about Dan? What was he doing the first time you met him?
SPEAKER_05:Trevor Burrus, Jr. So the first time I met you was at uh why can't I think of his name now? Um Frank Crandall's golf tournament at Turkey Creek in was it 15? Yeah, it had to have been like 15 or 16.
SPEAKER_01:It was right when Frank had relocated back up here. Um and I met him just out networking, and I was like, man, this guy's a this is a cool dude. And he's like, I want to do a golf tournament. At the time I was doing my my golf networking group. Um and yeah, I think I actually helped him out with that one as well. I've been I've been a part of a lot of the uh the uh real estate golf tournaments over the years for sure.
SPEAKER_03:Um You're a staple in the golf world.
SPEAKER_01:Used to play a lot of it.
SPEAKER_03:Ironic that both of our first times meeting you was at a golf tournament.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. You know, and significant others get mad about people playing golf for work. I think it's a fantastic place to do business.
SPEAKER_03:You're stuck with the same people for a couple hours. You talk about this all the time.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I go, we're gonna be in this cart for four hours together. So if we can't figure out a way to do business, like I probably need to look in the mirror. Or you're a complete ass. Right. Which is also possible. Which is also possible. There have been some long rounds. Maybe this guy should go work with somebody else. Maybe I don't want to work with you.
SPEAKER_03:So tell us about the song. Why did you choose that?
SPEAKER_05:Uh so huge Metallica fan. I grew up in the Bay Area. I mean, they're a Bay Area band, they're just legendary. The first time that I ever saw them was early 90s. And at the time in the Bay Area, they used to have a radio station KOME. Yep. And they announced one day that Metallica was going to play live in the parking lot at Tower of Records in South San Jose. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:KOME used to push the boundaries as far as like appropriateness in the 80s and 90s. Yeah. Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_05:I remember them for sure. And it was announced, and the Tower of Records was in South San Jose off Lawson Hill Road in Santa Teresa. And first of all, then making the announcement was not super good, right? Because you gotta line up police and you gotta line up all this other stuff. And you get out there to the parking lot, and there were probably eight to ten thousand people out there. Epic. And they just set up in the middle of the parking lot and just ripped it for probably about an hour. I mean it was like unbelievable.
SPEAKER_01:And like when they let it rip, it ain't just like Nobody rips like Metallica. It is hardcore in your face. But what I've always loved about Metallica is it's it's actually audible. Like you can understand the vast majority of the lyrics. Like they're not just screaming their heads off. The music is fantastic. I mean, there is a reason that they've had so much success for sure.
SPEAKER_03:And I will say, as a woman, that category of music is not typically the most appealing to me, but Metallica really, I think they they encompass what metal and rock is for like everyone. You can appreciate it no matter who you are. I agree.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. Yeah, I agree.
SPEAKER_03:Great choice.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I love them. Love them. It's much. So you grew up in the South Bay? Grew up in San Jose. Okay. And then what brought you what brought you up to Sacramento? We're gonna we're gonna get out of order a little bit. That's okay.
SPEAKER_03:We we know how to hop around. We're noble.
SPEAKER_01:We can we can jump around. Agile like that? Yeah, absolutely. So grew up in San Jose. Um Where'd you go to high school? Went to Bellerman. Oh, a bell, huh? Yeah, a mighty bell. And I Yes. We'll let that slide. We won't hold it against you. Well, but here's the reality, Dan.
SPEAKER_05:I mean um excellent opportunity educational-wise, right? My mom's a teacher, taught for 42 years. Bless her. Yes. Yeah. Uh I was actually in her class in sixth grade.
SPEAKER_02:How was that?
SPEAKER_05:It was really interesting.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I can imagine. It was really interesting. That brings a whole new name to like teacher's pet, right?
SPEAKER_05:Like Oh no, I didn't get it. There was no petting. Um she I was allowed to call her mom in class.
SPEAKER_03:You were? Oh yeah. Okay. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:I mean it'd be hard not to, right? It was really hard not to. Yeah. But but she had taught at the school for she was a glider for I think 30 years. Taught MGM kids, ELP kids, mentally gifted, whatever, fifth, sixth grade. And you know, she got to a point that where the kids that went through her classes grew up, went to school, got married, had kids, and their kids went through her. That's amazing. So she was incredibly super well known. Um but sixth grade was sp I mean it was just fun. It was just fun.
SPEAKER_01:Having had a child who just went through sixth grade, uh, those those middle school years, and now again in the Bay Area where I grew up too, most of our middle schools were six, seven, eight. Where like in Rockland, it's just seven, eight. I think Roseville's six, seven, eight. So there's some variety around here. But man, and and nothing against my poor son, but boy, middle school is is a is an awkward time for boys for sure.
SPEAKER_03:And girls, well, it used to be for girls too.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:I mean, obviously, I can't really girls like skip the awkward stage, apparently. Yeah. I'm like, they look now they're 11, looking like they're 16. I was so awkward when I was 11. I just spent the night with my goddaughter yesterday. She's 11. She looks like she's 16. She talks and acts like she's 16. I'm like, where is your awkward stage?
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:What you you have to earn this look that you are at and the way that you're talking, and you haven't earned it yet.
SPEAKER_01:So there was a uh there was there was the a style or a trend that was going around early this school year, obviously because it was still hot, where like the girls are wearing like these jeans shorts, like unbuttoned and like rolled down. And I'm like, yeah, that's not happening in my house. Hell no. And I'm like, I don't even care if I'm overparenting. I'm like, I'm not letting your friends do it either. If I see them, like we're gonna have we're gonna have a conversation and it's gonna be a very uncomfortable conversation for both you and I.
SPEAKER_03:Good for you, Dan. Good for you.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, and I have and having two daughters myself, uh 21-year-old and 18-year-old. Uh yes. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:It's I mean, they there's reasons they tell you that parenting is the hardest thing to do.
SPEAKER_03:I just kind of like ruin the I want a girl next. And also I dread it because I look at the way the world is conditioning them and raising them so much earlier than what I even went through, which wasn't that long ago. Right. But it's it's speeding up as fast as technology is well, and that's what we've we've talked, we've touched on it in the past.
SPEAKER_01:What what technology has done to just life in general. I mean, it's hyper, it's work speed. I mean, and there's there's give and take, right? But but you gotta you gotta really lean into the the parenting component and have the conversations and you can't just sweep it under the rug, right? No.
SPEAKER_05:No, and that's and that's the hardest part because you know it's they see they're exposed to so much out there with social media, right? You know, because I'm at 58, and you're only exposed when I was growing up in middle school. I mean, you're only exposed to your neighborhood for the most part, right? And now it's they see everything across the world, literally the world exposed to you. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:It's it's it's we were talking about so so my daughter's got her driver's permit. So we're oh so so I mean, we're full in. I mean, she's driving. We she drove, she drove to she drove herself to volleyball practice yesterday over in Rancho Cordova from Rockland. I mean, that's a and that's a hairy drive. Yeah, sets Sierra College to Hazel to the 50 interchange where it's a mess over there.
SPEAKER_03:Is she an anxious driver? Does she feel pretty comfortable with it?
SPEAKER_01:You know, she's a fast driver.
SPEAKER_03:Well, you did get her a beamer, you know. So it's hard not to be.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it's a slow one though. I'm like, this thing just looks bad. Um constantly reminding her, you know, it's but it's amazing. Like it brings back all the memories of when I was learning drive. And obviously, there's rules in place now that are way different. Like when I turned 16, it was like, here's your keys, here's your car, go by. Yeah, and now they're not supposed to have kids in the car or anything like that. I'm learning that, oh, nobody, nobody really does that. All of us uh we might have a conversation.
SPEAKER_05:It's good though. There's a she's driving as a 16-year-old.
SPEAKER_01:She we got her a used BMW. It's a three-series, four-cylinder, it's not like it's a nice car. It's a cool car, it's a safe car, it's a safe car for sure. Safe? Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:What was your first car when you were 16?
SPEAKER_01:Oh, my first car was a 1985 Mazda 626, baby. Five speed. Wow. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:I drove a uh a manual Chevy Silverado.
SPEAKER_01:There you go. Is it like a 1970s short drive? Because, god damn it, I want your car so bad right now.
SPEAKER_03:No, it wasn't. It was like an early 2000s version. It was, you know, it could have been a cooler truck, but I had a lot of fun in it.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, my first my first three cars summed up um did not cost as much as my daughter's first car. Um we are planning on this thing being a two-child. Yeah, for sure. Sure. Um, you know, it's one of those things where you're almost kind of I don't know, you not embarrassed, but like kind of embarrassed, but also proud. Like, hey, like you should be proud. We were, you know, we were able to afford to buy her something pretty nice that she wasn't gonna be embarrassed about.
SPEAKER_03:Don't be shy about that. That's an amazing accomplishment.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So she's happy.
SPEAKER_03:I mean it's we we strive to provide to our kids what we couldn't as like getting as uh our own child. We want to give more to our own children, right? So to be able to reach that accomplishment and like you should be proud of that.
SPEAKER_01:Well, there was something, and well, this this I'll just touch on it because it's one of my favorite things I've ever heard. Like, and it kind of ties this. It's like um someone was talking about like legacy and what they want to leave behind, and like you know, this person was obviously very well off and had left the their children. Very well set up. Very well set up, yeah. And uh but they said in the interview, they go, My goal was not for this, my goal was to leave them enough to do something, but not enough to do nothing.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And I've always I've always remembered that. And as as no matter how well like Maureen and I do, it's like we really do pay attention to how much we're providing. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:I think you do a really good job at making sure they know how to work hard for things also, and that as much as they get, it doesn't come without costs.
SPEAKER_01:I firmly believe in that. It's like, you know, it's one of those things, it's like a but yeah, like the money's fine. We've got we've got the money, we can afford a lot of these things. But at the same time, like for you to understand what it is to earn some of these things will will serve you so much better, so much later, longer in life.
SPEAKER_03:100%. Oh, a thousand percent. Teach a man to fish and all that. Can we talk about your hat?
SPEAKER_05:Yes, we can.
SPEAKER_03:Okay. For those who don't have the visual here, the double O. It's a camo themed hat's a Bart Bridge hat. Optimist otter on it. I have a couple bridge hats.
SPEAKER_05:Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Bart Bridge. Why did you choose this hat?
SPEAKER_05:So I was following So I followed Gary Vee.
SPEAKER_03:Okay.
SPEAKER_05:Right. And he had done hats, a collab with these guys. Yeah. And he had a couple of them on there. And this one came up and I'm like, that's it. Because that's kind of how when I get up in the morning to make my phone calls to do my stuff, that's kind of my mindset and how I approach the day. Cups half full, gonna have a good day. You know, be opportunistic, be optimistic throughout the course of my day as I'm making calls and connecting with people and and being out in the field and kind of doing that stuff is yeah, I look through the standpoint, every day is a good day. It just how do you frame it and what does it look like to you, and what does good mean? Right? So it's kind of a because what I do for a living, right? It's there's a lot of talking, there's a lot of connecting, there's a lot of phone calls, there's a lot of other stuff that goes along with it. Um but just having it's not all sunshine and rainbows.
SPEAKER_01:There's gonna be curveballs, there's gonna be different. Positivity is what did Nick Cunningham say? He said something awesome is gonna happen today.
SPEAKER_03:Uh somehow, some way today is gonna be awesome. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I've used that in moments when I'm not having an awesome day, and I'm like, you know what? There's still opportunity. Can you share with our vast and diverse audience what it is that you do for a living?
SPEAKER_05:Yes. Uh so I am a recruiter, headhunter, sometimes lovingly call myself a casino host in the mortgage business. So I I go out and make phone calls and connect with people and build rapport, earn trust, and recruit salespeople, loan officers, branch managers, teams, some small merger and acquisition, so smaller companies all get leadership and ownership lined up with one another to have a conversation. Um that's my job.
SPEAKER_01:Well, good Lord. I mean, I think maybe we need to enlarge the optimistic audit because good God, your industry has taken a beating for the last couple of years. And maybe, maybe to an extent self-inflicted. Um it's been tough, man. It's been tough.
SPEAKER_05:It has. Um it's uh look, the loan industry, real estate industry, it's a tremendous opportunity to put together uh, I think, the type of lifestyle that you want to have. Ton of freedom, which also comes up with a ton of responsibility, right? Got to be disciplined, gotta be focused, sniper-like. Um, incredibly efficient. You're can I gossip or say that? You gotta have your shit together. Yeah, right. Not only do you have to have it together, but you gotta get it picked up. Yeah. You you just just having it together isn't merely enough. Um and it's it it provides that. It's tough. It's a lot of grinding, it's a lot of conversation, it's a lot of one of my cantisms is it's just uh it's trench digging. Like I I dig ten feet a trench every day. Manual labor, a lot of blisters, sometimes never strike water, and you just get and do the same thing each and every day, and do it with a smile, and do it with joy, and just because you never know when you're gonna touch somebody at the right time to provide for them an opportunity that is gonna have some impact uh on them or potentially their family.
SPEAKER_01:Well, and I love that I love how you talk about the freedom, but that you also draw the parallel to the need for discipline. Because yeah, like there, there really is. I mean, especially when I was getting into this world almost 15 years ago, um, you know, there's a lot of days where two o'clock in the afternoon, you can be at the gym. And and that's fine. But at 10 o'clock, I might be responding to emails or you're taking a phone call or researching something. And you know, it's like if you're if you have the ability to complete the task, um, but the time structure is not like the most paramount component to completion, you can really be successful in in the real estate space. But if you're not, you can you can you can die on the vine pretty fast. Um most of the positions are commission only, so you're starting at zero until that you until that deal closes, and hope to god if you close one, you've already got another one lined up because you know, otherwise you don't know when your next paycheck might be. So it is definitely a pure sales environment. Um, it does require quite a bit of of discipline. Um but it also does provide quite a bit of opportunity to have some fun and cut loose and meet a bunch of crazy competitive people who understand exactly a day in the life.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. I have to say, I think this role for you, Kent, is anybody that knows you understands how perfect a role this is for you. Because I think over the course of just the few years that I've known you, you are so plugged in to so many different networks and communities. And I have always thought of you as the person who is connecting people. I mean, you've reached out to me for opportunities in the past that were had nothing to do with real estate, but you just knew you were like, hey, you would be perfect for this role. You should have this conversation. And you are the guy who connects people. It's like you are building bridges between industries, between social groups. And I think uh I I mean, even when you were at the Jaclyn for a little bit, like I saw you in that suit and just reaching out to people. I'm like, this is perfect for you. Like that is who you are. You embody the connector.
SPEAKER_05:I and Elizabeth would tell you too, like I am a very social person, and it's been incredibly tough for me working from home for the past five years.
SPEAKER_03:Unknown caller. Oh An unknown caller just called Dan. We should have answered it. Do we have called it? Because we were plugged in. We should have just made it through this thing without a time at all. Surprise, surprise, listeners. We have a we have a hotline you can call in during the podcast now.
SPEAKER_01:I want to introduce your voicemails. You know, call in, leave us a voicemail with your thoughts.
SPEAKER_05:No, it it's been incredibly tough. Yeah. It's super, super hard. Um, because I'm a very social person, you know, all the strength finder and disk profiles.
SPEAKER_01:So I was going to pick up on that. So yeah, so the strength is your your LinkedIn profile has your strengthfinder strengths. Woo-hoo, and I'm a woo, I'm a connector, which is which is wild because like when you do the program, they tell you like it is uncommon to meet very many woos. In our space, there's so many of us. There's so many people with these big personalities and and a need to be liked, right? Like God, that's my biggest downfall. It eats at me. Like if I know someone doesn't like me, like it eats me from the inside. I'm like, how the fuck? Like, how can you win this person over? Like, I'm a good person. Like, you shouldn't have to be a good thing. How do you not like me?
SPEAKER_05:And it's funny you say that because, like, for example, when I make phone calls, right? And and it's a a cold call, and I'm reaching out to introduce myself to a loan officer or branch manager or whatever, I can't understand why they won't have a two or three minute conversation with me. Yeah. Like I'm respectful, I introduce myself to them, I'm nice, I'm not douchey, I don't like I'm not sure.
SPEAKER_01:But then again, on the other side, like, do you think about it? How often have you been on the other end of that phone call and you're like, don't fucking ever go. Lose my number. Fuck on. Do you know? Like, and I'm like, oh, I totally get it. Like I try to be so nice to people, but then I'm a freaking salesperson. So I'm like, oh fuck, yeah, I'll have your coffee. God damn it. Like, I didn't want to have coffee with this person. It's honestly, I think we've all been we've been tainted and programmed.
SPEAKER_03:Now we get so many spam calls that the moment we get a whiff of this is a sales call, we're automatically defense is up, we're tuned out, we're over it. I mean, you have to be so good in like a second to do something different just to. I'll give you this actually. This came from uh the conference that I was speaking at. And he has a saying of, hey, I just wanted to, I I just wanted to see if today I'm two percent lucky. And then the person's gonna be like, What? Well, the statistic is that two only two percent of cold calls land into either an appointment or whatever. So like to open with something like that, that was one that one of the lines he would say, you know, like if you're if you're gonna make cold calls, because in that specific industry, cold calls aren't really relevant, um start with something. Start with something that's gonna catch your attention. Hey, I just want to see if I'm two percent lucky today.
SPEAKER_01:Especially now, I mean your phone's telling you it's a potential spam call. Oh I know. You know, but what what's what's wild to me, and this is crazy, and I love that it came up this way, because in our space, as Kent and I are people who call on real estate professionals, the amount of phone calls that don't get answered. Isn't it crazy? I'm like, holy shit, like I almost want to I almost want to be like when I when they answer the phone when I answer those calls, I'd be like Thank you for picking up your phone. Instead, no, no, no. Like when I'm on the when I'm the one being called, I want to be like, hey, I got a uh$1.5 million house that I'm getting ready to sell. Like, what's your name? Just flip the you know, flip the tables out of a little bit. Um but it's it's wild. Like you're so much of so much of that business has to come from a connection.
SPEAKER_03:It is insane. I just had this conversation with one of my lenders last week. How many agents do not return calls? I have been, and I know that so many agents can relate to this next statement. There have been so many times I've tried to schedule a showing for a buyer, and I've called the agent, I've texted the agent, I've emailed the agent, and they never respond. They do not pick up, they don't respond, or their voicemail is not set up. You can't leave a message, or the voicemail is full. I'm like, why is so bizarre?
SPEAKER_01:Why are you doing this? I tell people all the time, and this is one of my favorite things. I go, look, I go, there's a there's a good chance if you call me, I don't answer. I I spend a lot of time in places where I just can't answer a phone. Yeah. I said, put on my voicemail, it's gonna encourage you to send me a text message. And I said, by the end of the day, I will return your phone call. Like it's going to my front left pocket, whether it's a phone call, a text message, or an email, it is going to my front left pocket and I will be in touch with you before this day is over. And I for 15 years I've just lived and died by that. I'm like, fine. If it's nine o'clock at night and I'm having to follow up on some emails like, hey, I told you I was gonna do this, and here I am. It's my first opportunity to actually do what I said I was gonna do. Yeah. I love that. But crazy. Crazy. It's insane.
SPEAKER_03:It's insane. But it goes to show I have a saying that there's a lot of realtors in this industry, but there's not a lot of professionals. And those are what my friend has called the born-again realtors, the ones who like failed at whatever else they're doing, and then they're like, I'm gonna get my real estate license, but also I have this other job and I do this on the side, and they're yeah.
SPEAKER_01:You've got to have a pretty special network to be able to do it part-time. Um otherwise, I mean, uh and and I think the industry right now is really, really culling out the non-professionals.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:The demand on professionalism is is is being elevated probably by the day and maybe by the by the hour. Um I mean, technology is moving so fast we touched on earlier. It's just crazy. Yeah. Here's what I'd love to see.
SPEAKER_05:I agree. And you know, the mortgage industry is going through that right now, too. There's a awakening. Even more so, I would say.
SPEAKER_01:Yes. Well, the speed demands on your industry, like I mean, you guys can get loans done fast.
SPEAKER_05:Well, yes. And it's like it won't be long from now where uh you can have money wired and sitting in an escrow account as quickly as you can get approved for a credit card.
SPEAKER_01:That's insane.
SPEAKER_05:It's it's gonna be here.
SPEAKER_01:And I mean that's talking hundreds of thousands of dollars almost all the time.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. If not more. That's such an exchange of money. All it's crazy. Almost uh hard to comprehend when you think about it.
SPEAKER_05:Yep. And everything in that that pertains to a residential real estate transaction at some point in the near future, probably five years or less, is gonna be everything is gonna be on the blockchain. Everything. Everything, everything, everything.
SPEAKER_03:This is this is your sign to open up a like a mining company.
SPEAKER_05:You know, there's companies out there in the in the mortgage space right now that have that infrastructure built out. They're just waiting to go. Right? And all of the big block is all of the compliance, all the regulation, all of the disclosure. That's the part that's hard.
SPEAKER_01:But is that is that scary to you? Do you think um is are are mortgage professionals replaceable? Can technology replace them?
SPEAKER_05:He uh this is a really unfair question for you. No, no, no, no, it's not. Here's what I here's how I answer that question. I believe that there when humans get together, like we are now, are you getting sand and you look somebody in the eye, it's been proven there is a physiological chemical reaction that goes off in your brain. That when you interact with somebody, you look at somebody, you meet somebody in the brain that's a dopamine, right? Is that to say that it would never happen that technology could change that? I don't know. We'll see. I will probably not be on the earth when that happens, but well it's almost one of those things where you hope you're not, right?
SPEAKER_01:Like it's like, my God, I don't I don't I don't I don't want to be in that world where where friendships and relationships are no longer important.
SPEAKER_03:We've all seen idiocracy. We know we know how that ends. It's not well for the human race.
SPEAKER_05:But I think that loan officers, I think the smart ones, here's what I have been preaching for a very long time and try to say people. If you practice on your hospitality quotient and your hospitality skill set and not your service skill set, you exponentially are going to put yourself in a much better position than most loan originators out there today. Same goes to real estate agents. And the difference between the you know service and hospitality is service is the action, the thing, the hospitality is the emotion. Yes. And you know, having spent 20 years of my life in the restaurant business before I got into the mortgage space, I live, eat, and breathe that and understand the difference between that.
SPEAKER_01:Well, Katie and I both have restaurant background as well. So yeah, I mean that that service, that that that's I think hospitality is the perfect embodiment of exactly what you're trying to explain.
SPEAKER_03:Trevor Burrus, Jr.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. And it's it's so the loan officers that understand that and practice that, and how do I connect with people? How do I truly connect with them? How do I get them to trust me? What does that two-way street look like? And use the speed of technology and the things that are available for them today to help them communicate faster and incredibly much more efficiently with their clientele or realtor partner base, number one, right? But don't let that technology do the things that are important that earned you that trust. Right. Right. Right. It's it's it's a fine line and some loan officers get it, some struggle with it, some don't know how to do it. But but the ones that uh in 2025 and beyond have figured out the opportunity for them to uh just crush and and and just wipe their competition canily off of the map, it's there. I mean, it is there for the taking. Yeah. It's there. And the other part of that too is you know, the average age and a loan originator in the United States today is 57.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, I did not know that. You don't have a lot of young blood, huh?
SPEAKER_05:Well, that's the other problem, right, Dan, is that we as an industry have done a very, very, very poor job of you know, going to university and college campuses, like your MetLife, like your AFLAC, like your State Farm, like your Northwestern Mutual. They're all there recruiting them.
SPEAKER_01:Trevor Burrus, Jr. Do you think that's like a to an extent kind of a shortfall of the industry? Not going out and identifying young talent. Aaron Powell Thousand percent.
SPEAKER_05:Thousand percent.
SPEAKER_03:Well, I mean, if you think about it, everyone you talk to has kind of fallen into this industry either by way of discovery or someone they know. It's you don't hear people talking about, you know, when I grow up, I want to be a realtor, or I want to do loans, or I want to, God forbid, I want to be entitled.
SPEAKER_01:You know, it's like that's not something that people are aware of when they're I have a terrible habit of when I was when I was in the real estate space all the time. It was a terrible habit. And I used to ask people, what'd you do before this? Just assuming that fucking nobody ever starts in real estate. You know what's wild? 99% of the people had a fucking answer. Yeah. Like it was very few who are like, I've never done anything else. I love that. Very few. No, I know. That's exactly. I mean, it's you know, like looking back on it, the question was very well.
SPEAKER_05:But the reality is of that 1% that said, I did, they probably had a mom or a dad that did it. Yeah, right. And just said, okay, son or daughter. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Here you go. Here you go. Right?
SPEAKER_05:You're gonna step in and take over and family business.
unknown:Right? Like it.
SPEAKER_03:The industry my wife is in is very much of the same. It is something that people don't know about, but her father did it. That's how she got into it. And it's a very lucrative industry. It's a very small industry, much like ours. But you never hear people growing up going, like, I want to be in furniture wholesale, you know. But it like it exists, it's a need, it's a demand, and it is it's an incredible opportunity once you know about it.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, but it's something you fall into. Very similar to like what my wife does. I mean, she sells the air inside it inside of container space on boats. And I'm like, and she does really well. I mean, she makes good money, it's great, it's fantastic. Yeah, it's um you know, and it's funny. I mean, we joke, we go, hey, like she goes, she goes, you know, because I used to joke, I'm like, oh, this Major League Baseball Players Union is the strongest union in the world. And she goes, Yeah, they might be second. And I go, how so? I go, these guys are I've negotiated all guaranteed contracts, like there's no salary cap. I go, there this is this is unreal. Their pension after 10 years. I go, these guys have it made. And she goes, Yeah, but if the long shoreman's union goes on strike, the world stops spinning. Thousand percent. Thousand percent.
SPEAKER_00:So she goes, very fair.
SPEAKER_01:She goes, we have leverage too.
SPEAKER_05:Yes, they absolutely do. Yep. I love it.
SPEAKER_01:All right, let's let's circle this thing back because we did get our our our wagon above our ahead of our horses a little bit. So let's go back. So you said you spent about 20 years in the in the restaurant hospitality industry before. So so so tell so paint that picture for us.
SPEAKER_03:How did you How'd you get in a mortgage?
SPEAKER_01:So yeah. How'd you get into mortgage recruiting? Did you start in mortgage? I did. Okay. Uh so it'd be a very hard job with no experience actually in the trenches.
SPEAKER_05:Yes, yes and no. Um so moved up here in 2005 uh and was working for the time at a uh gotten out of the restaurant business, was in tech sales at the time. Working for a company based out of Copenhagen, Denmark, and then they had their U.S. headquarters in National, New Hampshire, and was driving down and then left them and then took a very quick brief stop at Robert Half doing technology recruitment. So lived in El Dorado Hills, office was off of Arden and Cap City. Okay. Okay. So that drive was not super fun. It was miserable.
SPEAKER_01:It's probably worse now. Oh, it is, but it was not good.
SPEAKER_05:Still never pleasant, though. No. So when I drive down the hill every day, I would drive by Sierra Pacific Mortgage's corporate headquarters. Because they were right there on Bidwell and Ironport in 50 and see their sign and all that stuff. And I thought, you know what? On the my wide way down the hill, I'm gonna drive in there and stop and knock on their door and see what they do for tech recruiting at the company at Sierra Pacific. Walked in, introduced myself, got past the gatekeeper, and Chuck Iverson came out. You know Chuck? Okay, so Chuck, uh, VP of Sierra Pacific for a very long time, he's now over at Mason McDuffie, but anyway, great guy. And after a five-minute conversation with him, and he basically said to me, Hey, I you know, we don't really use outside companies or third-party agencies to do recruitment. He said, But I'll tell you what, like I I like your background. I'm looking for, we're looking for right now a wholesale account executive for the mortgage space. Right. Up in your neck of the woods. So basically El Dorado Hills up to South Lake, around the lake, uh North Shore, Truckee, back down Grass Valley, Nevada City. So beautiful drive by window time, right? Outside of November through February. Oh, right, right, right. No, but that got to be fun driving up to Grass Valley, but we can talk about that in a minute. But you're making good money.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, you got the right ride. Right.
SPEAKER_05:So he said, Why don't you come back on Monday and you can meet Jerry Godfrey, who ran the wholesale right there out of the office. He said, Let's have a conversation. He goes, Because I think looking at your resume, I think you could be a good fit. Yeah. He goes, it's something that's just telling me. Salesperson sold the salesperson. Right. Love it. So can went home, did some mortgage not knowing anything about the industry, right?
SPEAKER_01:How to convert it. It's 05. I mean, you're likely still on like some sort of a dial-up connection.
SPEAKER_05:Right, right, right, right. So went back on Monday, sat down with him, sat down with Jerry, and they offered me a job. And that was my first foray into the mortgage businesses as a wholesale rep for Sierra Pacific, calling on you know, pretty much the western slope. Nice. Um that was December of 04, really got started in January of 05. Um, wholesale says until 2010, then made a move to Comstock, uh, worked with you know those guys over at Comstock, and then left Comstock in 2013, went over to Big Valley and went over in a full recruitment uh role. You know, Michael Pankow and I had talked to one another when we were over at PCAR meetings at chit-chatting and getting to know everybody. And he pulled me aside one day after the PCAR meeting, and we were chit-chatting. He says, you know, I like what what would you ultimately love to do? I said, here's my dream job. I don't want to run a branch, I don't want to originate, I don't want any of that. I'd love to recruit because my skill set is talking to people and connecting with people and building a trust. Right? Making friends. Making friends. I said, okay, let me he goes, Kurt and I are looking for somebody right now. Let me go have a conversation with Kurt. So that you know, two, three weeks, and I started with them in September of 13.
SPEAKER_03:Wow.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And here we are today. And here we are today.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. Yeah. So it's like I love what I do. I love talking to people. I love hearing their story, how they get into the business, what do you think it's going to look like? What goals do you have set for yourself and your family?
SPEAKER_01:What's the hardest part of your job right now?
SPEAKER_03:Great question.
SPEAKER_05:Getting people to pick up the phone.
SPEAKER_03:Ugh. Right? Why is that the hardest part of our industry? Well, here's the thing. This should be the simplest part of our industry.
SPEAKER_05:Yes. If yes. Technology has made it very hard. Yeah. Do you use text for like an initial text? I do not send text until I've earned permission to send them on.
SPEAKER_01:Interesting.
SPEAKER_03:So I'm very polite of you.
SPEAKER_01:I actually I'm trying to kick the frickin' door in with a text right now because like I'm not sure.
SPEAKER_03:I feel like if you don't answer my phone, that is my invitation to text you.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I I think I believe if I can get a text to you, it's going to get read. And uh if nothing else, like there's no guarantee a voicemail gets listened to. Obviously, if the call doesn't get answered, um I need something. And something, even if it's like, hey, am I gonna be that 2% day? Like, I'm trying to get somewhat creative with the text and give them a reason to respond, right?
SPEAKER_03:Um video texts were my in. If they didn't answer my phone call, I would send them a video text. Hey, give them my face.
SPEAKER_01:Those are super popular for a while there.
SPEAKER_03:They still are. People just, you know, they're getting lazy again. Also, ChatGPT has some epic ideas for things to say. Uh my approach is always like lead with humor, right? Whether they're ghosting you, whether you're trying to get their phone call to return you, whatever it is. Go to ChatGPT and be like, I'm a you know, a mortgage recruiter and people don't answer their calls. Give me 10 different things to say that are funny when I text them. Yeah. Try to get their try to get their attention, try to get a response, you know, and it'll it takes the thinking out of it and it just run.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, when I when I So I put them through a call cycle, right? I don't three three phone calls to the same person. If they don't pick up the first time, I'll call them again and then call them again. So I usually space those calls out ten days once, and then three or four days later, and then again. At the end of the third, when I leave a voicemail, it's self-deprecating, right? Humor. I say, hey, Kent Smith, Pylons Residential, you know, hoping to connect. And look, I've left a couple of voicemails. First, I've realized my voicemail skill set really sucks and is an area of opportunity for me that I'll work on. Promise you next time I'll come back to you with a better one. And I just love an opportunity to earn some trust from you.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:Right? Yeah. I'll stop here, I'll shelve it, I'll call you back in 30 days. If you want to chat, great. If you don't want to chat, too, that's okay too. But that's all I'm trying to do. Yeah. I I think we never know what's around the corner in this business. It's good to know people because you never know when that day's gonna come. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And you do not I think what's hard too, and again, I think this probably ties into the woo of of this table, is when you know you have a product or a service that's that could really be good.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:A good value, a good yeah. And it's like, damn, man, why don't you just take my freaking call? Please. Like, I'm trying, help me help you, right? The Jerry Maguire thing. Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_03:Here's what I learned. And this was actually something that I spoke about at the conference. When I was a title rep, I had all of these products and services and programs and vendors that we partnered with. And I knew in my core, right? Sales is a transfer of belief. I knew how amazing these products were. I knew how much they could help the realtor in the course of their everyday business. Now that I'm a realtor, I use less than 5%. And it's just because, like how I structure my business, some of that, most of that, it turns out, is not applicable. It feels like more work for me. And so I think that's really what it comes down to is fully understanding that, but you have to give us an opportunity to understand your business before we can understand where what we are offering plugs in to support you best. So just pick up the damn phone. Well, and the other thing here's the other thing.
SPEAKER_05:People work with people.
SPEAKER_03:A hundred percent. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:And again, the the world and the mortgage real estate industry from a tech standpoint is like evolving at warp speed.
SPEAKER_01:I I have a slight twist on that. I think people who like working with people work with people. I think there are people out there who do not like working with people. Trevor Burrus, Jr.
SPEAKER_03:More so now.
SPEAKER_01:And they have to work with exactly exactly. And I think that's a growing population.
SPEAKER_03:Trevor Burrus, Jr.: The world is producing more introverts, I think, because of technology. It's forcing people to stare at a screen more. That's why social abilities and talents and skills and just like the act of conversing with strangers and figuring out how to talk, it makes people uncomfortable. And then you have like the anxiety and everything else that young people deal with.
SPEAKER_01:Like, well, this is so wild. And obviously, you know, maybe an overshare, but like my kids are so over-the-top protective about what goes out on social media. And I'm not talking about what they put out on social media. And I'll give you an example. My wife or my son sent me a terrible picture. And he just he just kind of pale. It's just not a good, it's very unflattering picture. And I joke to my wife, I go, post on social media. Let's see how long it takes them to both contact you to tell you to take it down. Within three minutes, both of them, oh my God, take that down. And we're like, we didn't tag you in it. It's not exposed. So they go, like, well, dad's public profile because he's in sales, and mom's made allowed a lot of these people to be friends with her, so now it's going out there and they go they're going, we're gonna get fried. Internet is in fried on eternal text and comments sections and all that thing. And I'm like, and we're just like, oh my god, like, but that's their world. Yeah, like that really is important to them. And it's funny because it is creating a withdrawal from that social scene or social arena. Yeah, the humanity part of it. Creating and creating more introverted, like, nope, not not, you know, it's like where me, if that picture goes out about me and a bunch of I'm like, yeah, it was a rough day, you know, like but up, but I got 44 years of experience under my belt, right?
SPEAKER_03:I can I can probably You know how to deal with it, you know how to handle it and turn it into something that's not that big of a deal for them. It's ultimate. Yeah. Like that is life-ending, even though realistically, okay, we're having a really good conversation. I feel like we have we've been so nimble today that we haven't even looked at the board. I know. Um but I do want to know because you grew up in the Bay Area. Yes. And you came up here in 2005.
SPEAKER_05:Yes.
SPEAKER_03:So you've been here about 20 years. Yes. What is your favorite part about living in Sacramento?
SPEAKER_05:I think there's a lot. Um Well, it let's just call the obvious. At the time we moved up affordability in the Bay.
SPEAKER_03:I mean, it was just Still, even though prices are rising, I think, comparatively very affordable to the Bay.
SPEAKER_05:Aaron Powell, so here's a story. Um so my parents bought their first home in South San Jose in 1969 for$18,500.
unknown:Wow.
SPEAKER_05:Three bedroom, two bath, twenty-free.
SPEAKER_03:Sorry, you said 18,000, right? I just want to Yes. Yes.
SPEAKER_05:Probably more expensive than the car that Dan Bachers gives, maybe, or maybe not. Who knows? Um but so they bought that. Uh three two nineteen hundred square feet, uh seven thousand square foot lot. I mean, nice, right? Yeah. Uh they added on over the years, put up second story, made it the master suite, put a pool in. Um my dad passed away in 2007. And my mom stayed in the house. I mean, it was emotionally tied to it, right? It was our first and only house. Raised their family, raised my brother and sister and kids and all that stuff. And my mom moved up to El Dorado Hills in 2022.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_05:Uh she sold the house. Oh my God. How many millions? For 1.85.
unknown:Jesus.
SPEAKER_03:That's like a million time return for what you bought a barrel.
SPEAKER_05:So 68 to 22. So relatively in investment terms, right? A relatively short period of time. So when you come from that and you came up here at the time in 2005, because our home in 2005 that I grew up on was probably valued at it was probably nine. Had a strong nine in front of it. Maybe one. That might be a little strong, but a nine, eight in front of it. Coming up here, you know, when we first moved up, we bought our first home in Serrano for$450. And we were across the street from Oak Ridge and Silva Valley and a great area. I've got different things to say about Serrano, but that's for a different time. Um but you know, affordability at that point. And so I think that, but having been here for that period of time now, 20 years, the diversity up here, um the availability to uh be outdoors specially. Yeah. Because I'm in Auburn now. 45-minute drive to Tahoe. We go hiking. The scene up in Auburn is great. The food scene up here is really solid.
SPEAKER_03:It's getting better. Like it's getting so much better.
SPEAKER_05:It's just getting in and out of Sacramento Airport's easy, right? Getting where pretty much in the country.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Just not right now. The parking garage is kind of issues.
SPEAKER_03:Well, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:In real time.
SPEAKER_03:Maybe it's a Dan to find something negative to find about that. Sorry.
SPEAKER_02:Um it's still great. It's not LAX. We'll say that. It's it's it's it's a great area.
SPEAKER_05:I mean, it's a great area. You know, uh does it get hot up here? Yes.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. But it's no Bakersfield.
SPEAKER_01:No. We've got lakes and rivers. Yeah, we got a lot of waterways.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. It's a great space. Sacramento's becoming it always has been. I think it takes a perspective of experiencing other places to really appreciate what it is here. Trevor Burrus, Jr.
SPEAKER_05:Well, and I remember as a as a kid, um, you know, because we drive from San Jose, we had a family cabin in Incline Village in Tahoe till after my dad passed. And I remember, you know, driving up Interstate 80, 70s, 80s. And once you got past kind of really Madison.
SPEAKER_01:I used to drive drive in the in the mid to late 90s when my my dad moved up to Placerville. And I mean you'd go a half hour without seeing anything. Yeah, east of Douglas. Now you can't go three minutes one exit after that. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:I mean, east of Douglas at that time, there was nothing. Like zero. Yeah. You know, stop in Auburn, off Lannies for breakfast, K head up the hill.
SPEAKER_03:My parents joke about it all the time when they were in the fire academy together in the 80s, living in Loomis, Newcastle, that area, it was redneck. Like it was considered trashy. And now that's one of the highest price points. Oh, it's very bougie. The barn dominions. The barn dominions.
SPEAKER_05:I mean, anywhere between if you get up on King and Horseshoe Bar, one of those two roads, and you drive between Armer Folsom and 80, just look at the homes there.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. It's insane.
SPEAKER_05:Oh, yes. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's crazy. Yeah, it's great.
SPEAKER_01:It's fun to see how it's grown, though. Um so I don't want to do this, but we are running into a situation where we're running out of the way.
SPEAKER_03:I've noticed that you're looking over there, Dan. You're getting me, you're making me nervous.
SPEAKER_01:We have like two minutes of two minutes left.
SPEAKER_03:Oh my god.
SPEAKER_01:So we might have to uh we might have to have Kent come back, but we definitely want to touch on this one question last question. And I hate to Guys, I'm so sorry about this. Um yeah.
SPEAKER_03:This is this is the podcast equivalent of getting caught with your pants down. Yeah. So embarrassing. We just showed up naked to school in real life. It's true. It's cold, and it's cold out. I'm sorry. That actually works in my favor a little more than yours. Sorry.
SPEAKER_01:All right. So, Kent, if you could be anybody for a day, dead or alive, who would it be and what would you do?
SPEAKER_05:My answer would be white herb.
SPEAKER_03:White herb. Like it. Great response. Okay, what would you do?
SPEAKER_05:First of all, Tombstone is like one of my favorite movies.
SPEAKER_01:Would it be the OK Corral in the city of Tombstone? Like that, that's it.
SPEAKER_05:You know, there, and I just think, you know like I believe, here's what I believe. Uh you know, I believe that in a former life or whatever, like I lived in that era. Like of you know, be a good man. Yeah. Do the right thing. Have morals. Yes. Yeah. And I just I mean I was And shoot people who don't, you know?
SPEAKER_02:That's well, look, I mean, that's a very pe like a very sensitive topic, I shouldn't say that, but you know, in the in the realms of wider.
SPEAKER_05:But if you if you behave poorly or you make poor choices, there are consequences. And they should and they should be followed through on. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Yeah. Yeah. You know? I agree. It just so I think that era, and I think he to me represents strength, being a good man, more decisions.
SPEAKER_03:Standing for something. Standing for something. Right? I love that. Yeah. Great answer.
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