EP 46- P. Chrisman Brown: Raising The Bar

Transcript

Spring Weather And Family Updates

SPEAKER_03 0:20

Good morning, Kaylee.

SPEAKER_01 0:25

I can't top that. Hi, Dan.

SPEAKER_03 0:28

I was going a little Robin Williams. Good morning, Vietnam.

SPEAKER_01 0:32

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_03 0:33

It's been some time.

SPEAKER_01 0:34

Let's go for it.

SPEAKER_03 0:35

How uh how are you? Are you enjoying this uh this unseasonably early spring weather? Our merch? Certainly am.

SPEAKER_01 0:45

I'm oh I'm loving it. We've been hanging out outside uh wearing lots of sunscreen.

SPEAKER_03 0:50

A nice tan going already. Yeah, you see that face down. I got color. For an Irish girl, it's usually red.

SPEAKER_01 0:56

Ball and early. I know, right? Yeah. Pretty good for my people. They'd be proud.

SPEAKER_03 0:59

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:00

Uh yeah, no, it's been amazing. Loving the weather. We're getting our backyard ready. We got some birthdays coming up, minus on Saturday. Rourke's issue.

SPEAKER_03 1:08

Happy early birthday.

SPEAKER_01 1:09

Thank you. Um, and we're just, you know, making it nice and beautiful by back. It's what I love about where we live is that there are so many things blooming right now. We have jasmine wisteria, we have like all kinds of citrus trees and stuff. And when the sun just after it goes down, but it's still light outside, all of the flowers are releasing their like heat and everything from the day, and it smells like the air is perfume. It is a magical smell.

SPEAKER_03 1:40

I think I saw a social media post of yours along the along that vein.

SPEAKER_01 1:44

I feel like it could hypnotize you. You like stick your head outside and you can take a big whiff, and then you're like high on life, and it just smells so good, and you're like, oh my god. It's yeah, nature's miracle.

SPEAKER_03 1:54

I am very, I'm very glad I don't have allergies. My poor my poor son sneezes about 5,000 times a day. I'm like, oh my gosh, poor guy. We do pay for it. On the uh yeah, on the on the line of birthdays, my my daughter turned 16 last week. Uh pretty exciting. Did a big sweet 16 party yesterday. My um, my uh my my wife and my in-laws and my sister, my mom, they all they were all in town helping out. What did she guys do? What did you do? Yeah, they just um she had she had a bunch of friends over to the house. They made flower tiaras and hung out and did so it was it was great. It was I mean just a really nice group of girls and uh they had a lot of fun. So busy busy weekend. We've got the I've got my in-laws in town for the next month or possibly two. Wow. Um they don't speak English, so there's there's that. Um yeah, I mean, and then they're they're they're amazing.

SPEAKER_01 2:42

At least you don't have to host like you know, surface level conversation.

SPEAKER_03 2:46

Yeah, yeah, no, no. No, just just just just asking if they're good for the day on my way out the door is is challenging enough.

SPEAKER_01 2:52

So you're asking them that in Portuguese?

SPEAKER_03 2:57

Yeah, I mean I Google translate. Um I I I try my hardest when they're here. I should probably be better when they're not, I should probably learn. Um, but man, I mean, and not to be it's a terrible excuse, but fuck, we're busy. So it's a tough language to learn. Yeah, and and four years of high school Spanish kind of gets in the way of it. So it's it like I sound like a complete frickin' buffoon because I just use the wrong words, but you know, Portuguese and Spanish are not the same. That's why they are not that's why they have their own names. Yeah, they're just not the same.

SPEAKER_01 3:26

What an incredibly astute observation there, Dan. Yeah, yeah. It's gonna be a great episode. I can't believe it.

Meet Paul Brown And The Book

SPEAKER_03 3:35

It's gonna be a good one. Um I am so excited, and so a little backstory on today's guest. Today's guest was scheduled to originally do his podcast with us. The week of the day of the day of my accident. Um so here we are, four and a half months later, finally getting back to it. Which, you know, honestly, full disclosure, did provide me time to finish reading the book. I had not finished. You know what? I didn't even read the book. We're gonna touch on that. We are. Um, and it's it's fantastic. I can't wait. We're it's probably all we're gonna talk about because there's just so much to unpack.

SPEAKER_01 4:09

I can't wait to devour it.

SPEAKER_03 4:11

And uh so um let's see. So our guest today, previous career was in advertising, San Francisco, South Bay area, native, um, grew up down there, worked his way into the real estate business. Um I met I met him sometime early COVID when things were still kind of weird. Um just around the same time. But had a uh just just I mean, and and he's just so easy to connect with, and and we share, we shared our love of coffee and got to spend, I mean, I think a half hour meeting, we spent two hours gabbing. So ever since then, we've just been kind of hitting it off. So with without further ado, let's play him in. Let's play in our guest, Mr. Paul Brown today.

SPEAKER_01 5:22

We're having a string of epic guitar intros lately.

SPEAKER_03 5:28

That is that is a that is an absolute surefire first ballad Hall of Famer, cannot miss.

SPEAKER_00 5:34

So Yeah, when you asked me what my walk-in song is, that's the one. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:39

It goes way back to when it came out, and uh I was in a in a rock band back in high school, and uh that record came out and Yeah, and you know, we're gonna touch on it, but I came out to many a high school basketball games to that song right there, coming running out of the locker room, the the the warm-up tearaways, and yeah, I mean like that.

SPEAKER_00 6:02

And that record was a game changer because it ended the 80s. Yeah, and it was between grunge and you know, glam and all that stuff. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:11

It was a pivotal transformation for the rock scene generally.

SPEAKER_00 6:15

100%.

SPEAKER_03 6:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:16

Ugh, all right.

SPEAKER_03 6:17

I mean, look at the momentum it it gave us coming out the gates. I mean, geez.

SPEAKER_01 6:22

I literally got the chills, you guys.

Why He Wrote His Story

SPEAKER_03 6:23

That was like Okay, so we're gonna kind of jump right in. So, Paul, you and I have talked at length about this. Um, you're one of my favorite people to have coffee with because the conversations just happened so organically and easily and all that. Thank you. Um a few years ago you told me, you know, you were kind of you had this itch to write a book, and and then like and then we kind of didn't have coffee for a while, and then you were like three-quarters of the way done, and and you were head down, you're like, I gotta finish this thing. So, so talk to us a little bit about about why, why the book. And and you've you've shared this with me, but uh, this is one of the big reasons.

SPEAKER_00 7:03

And it, you know, just full disclosure, anything I say is um without ego or or anything like that. I just want your listeners to know that um I'll I'll speak the truth as I know it. And there may be some uncomfortable subjects, so I'm just assuming that everything's on the table.

SPEAKER_01 7:17

It is all the time, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:19

Because I'm totally good with my story and everything I've shared about it. Um back during what was it, Harvey Weinstein and that whole Me Too?

SPEAKER_01 7:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:30

I don't want to call it a thing, but that's the one.

SPEAKER_01 7:32

It was a movement, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:34

It was. Um topic.

SPEAKER_01 7:36

It was yeah, it was many things.

SPEAKER_00 7:38

And I I remember looking at the TV and I was pointing at it because I'm that guy that will talk to the TV, just like the progressive commercials. And um and I'm like, enough, enough is enough with this. I'm voraciously um defensive of women. I am a girl dad. Uh I grew up in a very turbulent home, so I had to protect my mom and things like that. Um, we'll get into all that stuff, I'm sure. Um, but it was just high time that I told my story in an authentic way. Yeah. Because men, my my opinion, I think men are we really need to raise the bar in this country.

unknown 8:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:23

Um so I I originally wrote the book because I didn't want people to feel like they're alone. If there was one if there was one thing, that's it. Because I spent a lot of lonely years as a child, and I went through sexual abuse, not by anybody in my family. Um and then like verbal abuse, bullying, all kinds of stuff as a kid. And I was really lonely. I was a total loner kid. 100%. And um this guy, I had to learn how to be this guy that you guys know. Yeah, honestly. I was a super timid kid, wouldn't talk to anybody, was old to myself, all that kind of stuff. Um but I learned as an adult I had to go find models. Yeah, I had to find male role models to emulate because my dad wasn't one.

SPEAKER_02 9:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:15

And so I found them in bosses and other people, and I and I still do it today. I mean, I hang out with guys that I that I want to be like. Yeah. Like you. I mean, seriously, dude. And I emulate other people. And that whole thing about, you know, you're the some average of the five years. Yeah. I hang out with some great guys. Yeah. That's amazing. And and and women too, but women didn't get off the hook either with the book. It was originally like for guys.

SPEAKER_02 9:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:47

But I'm like, no, but you know, that's sort of like I think for you, you have so much female pool in your world.

SPEAKER_03 9:53

Totally. You know, that that there was no way. And I think we were we've related on that as well. I mean, and and my dad's always been in my life, but my parents divorced when I was seven, and and I lived with my mom from seven through through graduating high school. Um, so like, you know, a lot of a lot of little things. Like, I joke, like, I'm I'm I'm bothered by men who don't put the lid down on the toilet seat because I was raised in a house with two women. Yeah. It's such a little thing, but like for me, it like it jumps out.

SPEAKER_01 10:26

No, I feel like I'm in a room of my peers finally.

SPEAKER_03 10:28

I'm like, understand. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:30

All of the women listening are like, hell yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:33

Yeah, they're like, these are our guys.

SPEAKER_01 10:35

If you want to die early, then I just I love what you're saying already. I can tell I'm gonna be, I I love this conversation so much because I think it's really profound to have the awareness of I want to be better and I have to seek that out for myself. Most people, especially men, I think they have such a stigma about what a man is and the machismo and all of that, that vulnerability, authenticity, admitting that you're weakness or you could be better in some areas has it hurts the ego ultimately. And it's really difficult for men to do. And and also we've had a society that's told them historically like your emotions are taboo and being vulnerable is taboo. And doing anything that would appear as weakness means you're less of a man.

SPEAKER_00 11:24

Aaron Powell I have a chapter in there. It's titled V stands for vulnerability.

SPEAKER_01 11:28

I saw that.

SPEAKER_00 11:29

And it's um, you know, the worst, I think one of the worst phrases in the world is uh is the phrase man up. It's terrible. It's like the worst.

SPEAKER_01 11:39

I I do say it in certain situations, but it is usually followed by man up or pull out or but you know, we can say it in fun, right?

SPEAKER_00 11:49

We can, but yeah, that that yeah, it's been a hard one for guys, I think.

SPEAKER_01 11:54

Yeah, and I think it continues to be. But I think we are in a movement socially where we're encouraging all humans, not just men, to address mental health, to address things emotionally, because the better that you can be internally, emotionally, mentally, the better you can show up for the people you love.

SPEAKER_00 12:16

I have dealt with anxiety and depression my entire life.

SPEAKER_01 12:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:20

And I didn't embrace it, I didn't accept it until like three years ago.

SPEAKER_01 12:26

That's incredible.

SPEAKER_00 12:27

Three years.

SPEAKER_01 12:27

I mean, three years is a short time to show up so grounded and authentically.

SPEAKER_00 12:31

I stayed silent about my sexual abuse for 40 years. Wow. Silent.

SPEAKER_01 12:36

That's a long and your body holds on to that physically, like somatically. There's studies that show your body holds on to the trauma in ways that we Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:43

Was the was the first time that you put that out like was it like did you write it down or was it in like a therapy session, or like, and how like how like like was it like a cathartic like like just sheet coming off of your first time that you like addressed it and put it out in the universe?

SPEAKER_00 12:59

Um it was it was well, so the first person I told about it was my wife back when I was dating her. I said, look, because I was in this, I came out of a six-year relationship, and then the next time I was like, oh the girl, if I'm really gonna like her, you know, I'm gonna tell her everything. And so I did like an over a pizza. It was like terrible.

SPEAKER_01 13:22

But the thing first date conversations, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:24

But no, it was awful. It wasn't, but but you know what? And it was it was when I so I had testicular tumors and this whole thing. It's all it's all in there, you're gonna read it. Um excuse me. And but what she what she said to me was it it it's who you are, it's not what you can give me that I care about.

unknown 13:47

I love that.

SPEAKER_00 13:47

And it stopped me in my tracks. So to answer your question, excuse me. Um it was such a relief that I spoke of these things which were damaging things in my life, and I just went from there. And then fast forward now in writing the book, I started it in November of 24. It took me a full year. It was five months of every day writing it and then editing all that kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_01 14:17

Um So you wrote everything yourself, edited yourself. You didn't have like ghostwriters or editors or no ghostwriters.

SPEAKER_00 14:23

I wrote everything, but my publisher uh I used their editing services. Okay. Okay. Because I write long yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:31

Well, we're not all born authors, you know.

SPEAKER_00 14:33

If you've seen my Facebook post, you're I have. I do. I have all those. Can this guy stop talking? He's got a lot to say. But they but they they made it what it is. Yeah. As far as you know, crunching it down, keeping it interesting.

SPEAKER_01 14:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:47

And not too long.

SPEAKER_01 14:48

It's perfect. I I literally think I'm gonna devour this this weekend. For those of you that don't know, um, Paul has written a book called At the End of the Day, and that is what we're referencing throughout this conversation. We'll be able to put a link in, I think, on our when we post this.

SPEAKER_00 15:05

And I, you know, and I think, you know, when when we originally, if if I may, I mean, I want to talk about all of our stuff. I'm not trying to draw the two of you out, but you've been through some things.

SPEAKER_01 15:18

Call me out.

SPEAKER_00 15:18

No, I'm through some things.

SPEAKER_01 15:20

I mean, I like we gotta we gotta ease Dan into what we call it.

SPEAKER_00 15:23

I like this. I like this.

SPEAKER_03 15:25

I'm that stereotypical dude that doesn't let his own. I'm breaking him down to five minutes like David and Goliath over here. I like this hat trick here.

SPEAKER_00 15:33

I mean trying to think of something with three that doesn't sound terrible.

SPEAKER_03 15:38

Well, um Well, you know, Paul, I hate to burst your bubble, but but you're our guest here, okay? So we'll be asking the questions. God damn it, you're poop.

SPEAKER_01 15:48

No, but what I what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_03 15:49

I gave my one episode of honorable. There you go.

SPEAKER_01 15:52

We talked about poop. It was really hard. Oh my gosh. Um what I will say though is that conversations like this land with so many people because no person is unscathed in this life. That's right. And and unfortunately, the sad fact is that many of us have experienced some type of abuse. We've experienced some type of tragic health challenge. Like there are so many of us that are struggling with life that happens every day. And then we have platforms like social media where we try to make it look like that stuff doesn't exist. But that's really what life is about. And that's what people relate to.

SPEAKER_00 16:32

Well, and it's it it is really about the journey. I mean, there's this great book out there called Um The Book of Joy. And it's the it's the conversation between the Bishop Desmond Tutu and the Dalai Lama. Oh, wow. And it's fantastic.

SPEAKER_01 16:45

What's it called?

SPEAKER_00 16:46

The Book of Joy. And it's a great one to listen to in the car because it's really thick. I mean, it's like media. I've listened to it a couple of times. But the point is that it's so simple. Like I'm posting a lot of things right now, like from the Vatican. And I'm not even Catholic. But the the messaging is so simple and it's so pure to me that I just like it. It's just refreshing.

SPEAKER_02 17:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:14

Because we're getting in a r we're in a really noisy world, but yeah, we can really noisy.

SPEAKER_01 17:19

The world is meant to be distracting these days. And and we could talk about everything that's happening, but uh for me, what I've what I've discovered recently is that when people I'm speaking with start going into the kind of like doomsday, the weight of it all, I'm like, we gotta redirect. Like there's so much good that happens every day. It's the simple moments, the simple acts.

SPEAKER_03 17:44

Well, there's that there's that that piece of social media where, and I and I don't I haven't done any research on this or anything, but this is kind of my feeling on it.

SPEAKER_01 17:51

Where this is where we need our producer to be like researching this right now.

SPEAKER_03 17:54

Social media is it's it's kind of your platform to say what you want out there, and the more the more followers or the more connections you have, or the more interesting the shit you put into there. But like so I I feel like like because of that, we've kind of almost inherently been groomed that everything that we say has to be really important.

SPEAKER_02 18:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:14

And and it doesn't. Like, like, like you can be an average Joe. Um, I have opinions, I have very strong opinions. Um, I don't I don't put up a lot of those out there on social media. I mean, the one that I probably put out the most on social media is I don't believe if you were born a woman or born a dude, you should be able to play guys' sports. And I and I'll take that one to the grave. You're not gonna convince me otherwise.

SPEAKER_01 18:36

Yeah, vice versa, too.

SPEAKER_03 18:37

Um but I'm not gonna talk a lot of politics or religion on on social media, and I and and I and I think a lot of that is because like my personal belief is I don't want to put that on you. Like you've got yours, you've got yours, and guess what? I like both both.

SPEAKER_00 18:51

Well, and that's how it should be. I mean, I grew up in a in a strict, like conservative, like Protestant family, and it was totally insane just based on everything that you know we we know. But um I remember letting go as a younger person, probably like in my early 20s, like you do you, you do you, and I'm gonna do me because I can't really take on your deal.

SPEAKER_02 19:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:17

I can only take on mine because of all this shit that I have in the book. That's right. And I just let it go. And it's it's kind of that whole Mel Robbins let them thing, right? Yeah, yeah. Like if it's so important to you, go knock yourself out. I'm good with that.

SPEAKER_01 19:31

Is that really the hill you want to die on, you know? It's like it's crazy when I see people, even in my own family, I've seen family members stop talking because they have different political beliefs. I'm like, really? Like, that's so strong that you're gonna let it prevent you from even having conversations because anyway, I will I will I will say this.

SPEAKER_03 19:49

Like, I I kind of have some of that in my world. And yes, like if people have too strong of an opinion in regard to something and that's all they want to talk about, like I'm out. Yeah, I I don't I don't I don't have zero desire to be associated with with that, like because I think that that infringes on my belief that you do you and I'm gonna do me.

SPEAKER_01 20:06

Like totally, totally. There's a self-preservation that's necessary.

A Timeline Of Trauma And Health

SPEAKER_03 20:09

I respect it. You can do that, go do it, but but you're gonna do that without me. Yeah, I'm gonna be a part of that. Yeah, Paul, real quick, I wanna because yeah, I feel like we're gonna we're gonna reference kind of the the traumas so often in this because so much of your life has come. Can you just kind of timeline the the like so so obviously abuse as a as a child, and then you know, like like take us beyond that. I mean so we kind of understand the timeline of it.

SPEAKER_00 20:36

Yeah, so the timeline is is really probably from the you know mid 1970s with like abuses all the way so I graduated high school in 1988. So probably from like seven for ten years, probably 77 to like 86 maybe, something like that. I was like super turbulent. Um my parents were under a lot of stress like financially, and my dad, you know, his parents were not nice people, and so he kind of perpetuated a lot of that. Um and I've got other family members that have perpetuated men that have perpetuated bad behavior too. And um so yeah, like those 10 years, and then when I graduated high school, you know, I was in the band, super fun.

SPEAKER_01 21:28

What instrument did you play?

SPEAKER_00 21:29

Guitar. Yeah!

SPEAKER_01 21:31

I don't know why I have like a Bill and Ted moment right there.

SPEAKER_03 21:34

We play like guitars and bikes are Paul's love language, just totally sneak.

SPEAKER_01 21:39

God, we're such kindred spirits.

SPEAKER_00 21:42

Yeah, no, and I'm getting back to the guitar now that the girls are out of out of the house and all that stuff. It's been really fun, really fun. Um so then I went to college, and I was a long-haired dude to cut all my hair off. This high school went crazy, like, oh my god, he I literally just cut all my hair off one day before graduation. And um then I just went to college. So I went to two JCs and went to West Valley and De Anza in uh San Jose, and then I transferred into San Jose State. I didn't have the means or the forethought to go away to school, just wasn't possible for me. So I s I I lived at home and I and I commuted to San Jose State. And I got my degree in advertising and mass communications. And then I went and started working for this company in Palo Alto on University Avenue in graphic design. I learned everything about design and typesetting and all this stuff. And then I ended up in uh San Francisco at FootCone and Building, so a huge uh global marketing firm, advertising firm. I worked for FootCone, I worked for Hal Reiney, I worked for McCann Erickson, I worked for Jay Walter Thompson, worked for Leo Burnett.

SPEAKER_01 22:48

So you're in the fast and furious world of marketing and advertising, especially in the 90s. That's when it was really having its like glory days.

SPEAKER_00 22:54

It was.

SPEAKER_01 22:55

You're just now experiencing the introduction of the internet and how marketing and advertising, like how did that how did you deal with all that?

SPEAKER_00 23:03

It was it was fast and furious. It's kind of like digital is now. But then, I mean, we did the first um website for Saturn automobile. You remember the Saturn GM? We did the first automotive website and it was Saturn, and it was a disaster when I launched. Because the guy that the guy that did it, the designer that did it, he over-designed all the navigation and everything. It locked up. Oh, it was it was a total shit show.

SPEAKER_03 23:29

So but so but during that part, sorry, I'm gonna get us back. So during that you had a your kind of first physical challenge or trauma, whatever, like Yeah, to boil it, yeah, to boil it down a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 23:43

So like 90 93 is when I had testicular tumors that I discovered. And then that led me to my chapter two, which is entitled The Sperm Bank. And um It's good read. Good read. It's great stuff. You're gonna love it.

SPEAKER_01 23:59

Yeah, I'm lighting up about chapter two right now.

SPEAKER_03 24:02

No, let's not let's not blow this out.

SPEAKER_00 24:04

It's gonna make you laugh.

SPEAKER_03 24:05

I've read the book.

SPEAKER_00 24:07

There's even a mentioned. There's even a mention about Penthouse magazine in that. Okay. Oh my god, I can't wait. I'm like, excuse me, guys.

SPEAKER_01 24:16

So um there are pictures in the book for everybody's reference, by the way.

SPEAKER_00 24:21

Yeah, so health challenges really started, you know, in like '93, and then um I had hearing problems as a child that were pretty uh repetitive throughout my life through like 2010. Then I had a I crashed my bike in 2015 and I shattered my pelvis. That was awful. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:43

And then I had a stroke and those were those were the references that were like, for me, like stop being such a fucking baby.

SPEAKER_01 24:50

Like there's always something like that.

SPEAKER_00 24:54

I was in Shingle Springs on a solo ride for like 60 miles, and I hit the deck uh by myself. Ugh. And I was like, What did you do? Laid there. Yeah. And uh two-lane road. Yeah. It was like a Clint Eastwood moment. It was like hawks above.

SPEAKER_01 25:11

You're like, is this it? Totally.

SPEAKER_03 25:13

Like the vultures are circling.

SPEAKER_00 25:16

But motorists pulled over and and all that. But then I had a stroke in 2020 from an atrial maxoma in my heart, so another tumor. During COVID. During COVID, COVID was blowing up.

SPEAKER_01 25:28

What a great time to be locked in a hospital, man.

SPEAKER_00 25:31

For 10 days and not see your family at all.

SPEAKER_01 25:33

It's terrible.

SPEAKER_00 25:33

We watched The Bachelorette, me and the girls on FaceTime.

unknown 25:36

Oh.

SPEAKER_03 25:38

Thank God for technology. Yeah, I mean right. And I think so so Paul came and visited me when I was laid up. Um we spent an hour and a half or two hours and uh just talking about that. And yeah, like a lot of that's like the technology and the things, like, man, like compared to 10, 15, 20 years ago, just the the advancements and like and we bash on social media and stuff, but like man, like there's also a really it's also a really nice tool to have. Marina made me a proper coffee too. Thank God our freaking espresso machine was on the Fritz for a couple days there and it was like you want coffee? I'm like, Well, yes, I do.

SPEAKER_01 26:15

All right, noted. Marina makes a great cup of coffee.

SPEAKER_00 26:17

Oh, take that in my back pocket. Then open heart surgery from the stroke to get the myxoma, and then I blew out my appendix in 23. That exploded, and then this is last year I fractured my spine and I got melanoma.

SPEAKER_01 26:36

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 26:37

And I got through all of it.

SPEAKER_01 26:38

You did, and you're here, and you're like such a genuinely joyful person to be around. Like you could tell your energy is just so it's just so content. It's happy.

SPEAKER_03 26:49

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 26:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:51

There there is an absolute like endearing and and and and I think mildly inspiring, and I don't mean that to be an insult because it because like Paul's demeanor is is just is just so even keel. Like you you you you kind of have to get to know him to to be able to to to let it inspire you because he's not gonna hit you in the face with inspiration, like we're gonna fucking get through this. That's not Paul. But like Paul be like, hey, I could share you some experiences that I could that I have survived, and you know, like give you some.

SPEAKER_01 27:21

It's like the buffalo in the storm, like you weather it all and you face it head on. But I I mean, what a testament to the challenges of life that we all go through and the opportunity, but mostly the choice that we all have on what are you gonna do and how what kind of person are you gonna be on the other side of it? Because all of us have a choice. And a lot of people choose, and I I feel like more so today. People come across a challenge and they act like the world is falling apart. And it's like we don't know how to deal with challenges in a healthy way and come on the other side of it even stronger and better and transformed. And you're a walking example of how it should be.

SPEAKER_00 28:01

Well, thank you. And this this voice doesn't really change. No, but I used to get busted on that.

SPEAKER_03 28:07

Only proximity to the microphone. That's right. That's right. This is this is how it is. Now I'm no longer the resident baritone on the line.

SPEAKER_00 28:17

I'm it I'm dating myself. But um, no, my wife busted me on it back when I started working in the advertising business because I left a a voicemail on my outgoing, you know, landlines back then. It was like, I reached Paul, you know, da-da-da. And she busted me. She's like, you need to change that voicemail.

SPEAKER_01 28:35

I kind of love it.

SPEAKER_00 28:37

So anyway, but it's fun. Um but thank you. I appreciate that.

San Francisco And Learning Acceptance

SPEAKER_03 28:42

Yeah, yeah. So, all right, let's let's talk about some some some some some some logistical stuff. Yeah. Grew up in the South Bay, and then your your love affair with San Francisco. Um I don't have like that intimate, but I grew up very close to San Francisco and do have very fond memories of once I turned 16, and unlike it is now. I mean, I turned 16, I got my license, I loaded my buddies up in the car, and we were and we were in the city.

SPEAKER_02 29:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:08

Yeah. Um, Paul spent a significant amount of time in it. And I just I love the way that you speak about the city. Um so kind of take us from from San Francisco to Folsom. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 29:20

So yeah, it um the city was my it was the exorcism of Paul Brown.

SPEAKER_01 29:29

It really was so eloquent. I love this.

SPEAKER_00 29:31

It really was because he's an author. Yeah, he's an author.

SPEAKER_01 29:34

I mean, who am I kidding?

SPEAKER_00 29:35

Because I I came there totally damaged goods. I mean, I had all the stuff that I've touched on so far, and I met my wife at a dinner party that I was invited to. It wasn't a setup, but my buddy was like, hey, this girl's gonna be there that I met last week, and I think you might like her. And I'm like, oh, cool. That's you know, between guys, I'm like, oh, that's a no-brainer. I mean, she doesn't not set up. I can, you know, and we talked the whole time. And um, I've been with her for thirty over thirty-one years. That's amazing. And um, but the thing about the city was I felt like I was somewhere finally that I could see my life going in a trajectory that was different than what and it was exciting to me. I mean, it was it was liberating, it was um, it was young, you know. This dinner party I met her at, there were like ten of us, we were all drinking wine, and you know, there are like five bottles on the table, and we were all talking and eating and and drinking. Very sophisticated.

SPEAKER_01 30:41

Yeah. Totally almost like an author's table, kind of.

SPEAKER_00 30:44

Well, but it's funny because you know, I've been going to UCSF to get medical care in the last year, and like when I drive through the city now, it's like all Waymo's. Oh god. But then it's so young, which makes me laugh because it's like you know, it's like being in Soho, New York, or something. Like everybody, you know, all the girls got in the house. I used to be one of them. I used to be around. I used to be I used to be you, right? Exactly. Exactly. I used to be one of you.

SPEAKER_03 31:08

San Francisco has always had like that that component where, and I don't understand, I can't wrap my head around it now because the cost of living is just so absurd. But the average age for for a city is as as robust as San Francisco. It is a young city, probably like 26. Yeah, I mean, maybe younger. Yeah, it's it's wild. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:27

I mean, it kind of makes sense though. Like the city, it's it's such a fast way of life, it's like that it's perfect environment for that age bracket.

SPEAKER_00 31:35

So the major thing that San Francisco did, and this is why I say it's the exorcism of Paul Brown, is that it showed me that regardless and it demonstrated to me for 15 years, regardless of what you think, how you feel, what you look like, what you eat, it's all good. And we're all really not that much different. You know, there's a question on the sheet. Um, you guys were asking me about the meme. Oh, yeah, the trend. Well, so this isn't really a meme because I don't think I really have that. I'd have to talk to my daughters about what meme is cool, but um any type of trend. But there's this there's this guy in Brooklyn called Faroze Khan, and he interviews people on the street. And like, let's say you're walking down the street, hey, I like I like that fit. You look really nice today, and then you stop and you say, Excuse me? And you go, Yeah, like you know, what do you what do you have on, you know, that kind of thing. And then he'll he will ask you questions about, you know, what do you do for a living? And then if there's one thing you wanted to, you know, leave leave for the world, what would it be? And um today's one was kindness, it's the entry to everything. That's what the person on the street said.

unknown 32:58

I love that.

SPEAKER_00 32:59

And I have embraced kindness because I didn't have anything else. I wasn't a jock, wasn't popular with the girls, none of that. Like zero. And but I'm like, okay, well, I can be a nice guy.

unknown 33:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:12

That's all I had in my faith.

unknown 33:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:15

Even as the jocks are picking on you, and you know, all that. Love them through it. And the jocks are cool. Cheerleaders, they're like the rocker guys, but they could never do it. He could play guitar with it.

SPEAKER_01 33:25

If you put a guitar in that hand, there's a lot of women who would swim over you.

SPEAKER_03 33:28

I don't know if I've shared if I've ever shared on the podcast. Like, I I think the coolest thing to me, like the skill that I want, I keep kind of subtly reminding my wife, I'm like, the gift that I would love is if you got me like piano lessons. Because I think the guy that can sit down on a hotel lobby piano and just start putting out some music. I think that guy is the coolest guy in town.

SPEAKER_01 33:47

Yeah, no.

SPEAKER_03 33:48

But now remind you, I'm I'm I'm much more scientist than artists, so it'll be we'll see if it ever happens.

SPEAKER_01 33:54

I'm gonna hold you to that. I'm gonna just keep checking out.

SPEAKER_03 33:56

I will not do it for myself. It has to be a gift. I'm telling you that right now. So we'll see if she listens this episode. That's a very subtle reminder. Got me, babe?

SPEAKER_00 34:07

No. Um there were some other things like real estate related. I know we're just kind of freestyling.

Leaving Advertising For Real Estate

SPEAKER_01 34:13

I know. This is so funny. You've you are the most prepared guest for everybody listening. He has the questions that we sent him printed out with notes written. Oh, yeah. And then Dan went and erased the whole board. Like, we're just gonna go wing it today. Yeah. I'm like, this is such a contradiction. It's so funny, but it I love it. I love where this conversation is going. So let's talk to us a little bit about real estate. I am curious, like, how did we get in there?

SPEAKER_03 34:37

San Francisco kind of leads you to real estate, right?

SPEAKER_00 34:41

Like it yeah, it did. Thank you for keeping us on track with us.

SPEAKER_01 34:44

He's really good at that.

SPEAKER_00 34:45

Um so yeah, so okay, so advertising is kind of like mad men. It's like fun, it's sexy, it's like partying, and it just wore me out. Yeah. It literally wore me out. And I was just like, one day I just went to my wife after we had moved here to Folsom, and I was like, Oh, so you were still doing the advertising with it? I transitioned with a company down in Midtown.

SPEAKER_03 35:12

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 35:12

That was doing uh and that's what brought you up to Folsom.

unknown 35:15

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 35:15

And um, I took the job, it didn't go well. I w but my head was checking out of the business. I mean, I worked on Pebble Beach Resorts. I mean, how bad can that be?

SPEAKER_02 35:24

Tough life.

SPEAKER_03 35:25

Terrible view, terrible view. Both of your girls were born, that was the impetus to move, or was it one and then Campbell, my my 21-year-old now, she was a baby.

SPEAKER_00 35:36

Okay. She was one, and then Aubrey wasn't here yet. Okay. Work in progress. Work in progress, 2006. She was frozen.

SPEAKER_01 35:45

I have one of those. IVS. She's currently frozen.

SPEAKER_00 35:48

Yeah, three years. She's free. She's my she's my that gives me so hope.

SPEAKER_01 35:53

She's my smarty pants. I I'm I always wonder, like, when what are the what are the boundaries of science and nature and like how long can we keep something frozen before it's just unnatural anymore and like it doesn't work like it's supposed to? This is just like something that I think about. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 36:10

Complete sci-fi. Yeah, it's so crazy. It's in there.

SPEAKER_01 36:13

All right. I I can't wait to read the the IVF chapter, you guys.

SPEAKER_00 36:16

Yeah. Um and then, yeah, so I went, I literally went to so I gotten I was politely fired. I was technically laid off from that job. Politely fired. Totally. And so I walk into the house, Carolyn is like on the couch, totally pregnant with my our second, and I'm like, guess what just happened? She looks at me and she goes, You just got laid off. And I go, Yep. And I literally, that was a Friday, and I started with Colwell Banker on Monday.

SPEAKER_01 36:47

So you already had your license. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:49

I was getting it.

SPEAKER_01 36:50

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 36:50

Me and Chipotle were like this. I was studying for my test at Chipotle in in Midtown on the 19th. I love that. I'd go there every when I for a good few months. That's where I was studying.

SPEAKER_01 37:03

Good food for the brain.

SPEAKER_00 37:05

Good food for the brain. It was just it was just time. And it was the best decision professionally I'd ever made because there was something about um owning my own business that gave me the responsibility and it brought this guy out that you know because there was no plan B.

SPEAKER_01 37:24

I love that.

SPEAKER_00 37:25

Like zero.

SPEAKER_03 37:26

We taught we talk about it, man. I mean, pure sales.

SPEAKER_01 37:29

It has to be a burn the boat situation.

SPEAKER_03 37:31

It is a great otherwise you let off the gas.

SPEAKER_01 37:36

You let yourself, because in the back of your brain, you always know, well, there is this that can catch me if I fall. I can fall back on this. Yeah. Yeah.

Boundaries And Being Present

SPEAKER_00 37:45

Yeah. I love that. Burn the boat. I'm gonna I'm gonna put that into something. Yeah. Um phenomenal book. And it's um and based on everything we know so far about me, um, I wanted to be absolutely present for my girls in their life.

SPEAKER_01 38:03

That's something I'm struggling with right now.

SPEAKER_00 38:05

As a dad, like this is a non-negotiable, and it's cost me big money. I know it has.

SPEAKER_01 38:11

Yeah. I just had my first uh interaction with a big money opportunity and me having to say, no, I can't go to this event that you want me to because it's on my birthday, and I promised my wife I would have one full one full day off, and she's planned a whole day for me. And you know, that I think that's one of the hardest trade-offs that we have in real estate, is it's so easy to be communicating all the time, available all the time, and that's part of our job is to be available and agile. But we also have to be there for our families. We also have to be present. Like I don't like my son looking up and seeing me on my phone rather than looking at him. It's tough.

SPEAKER_00 38:52

So it's it's a dance.

SPEAKER_01 38:54

It is a dance.

SPEAKER_00 38:55

It's a dance. It's it's not like, oh, you gotta be this way. I know. It's easy for me to say, but it's a dance because it's and you can't compare.

SPEAKER_03 39:04

It's not like I think I think that's where it gets the gets the most dangerous, is in that comparison. That's right. Oh, for sure. It's gotta be what makes you happy because uh there's actually things that I really, really love about work. And there's sometimes when there's there's there's a life thing that I that I might have to miss, and I go, you know what, I'm actually choosing the work thing because I enjoy that more than the life thing. Totally. Um, I mean, maybe not necessarily in relation to my my kids and their activities and things like that, but you know, I mean I think where I'm at is I want to be fully tuned in to whatever whatever it is I'm doing.

SPEAKER_01 39:36

So if I'm gonna take 30 minutes to be fully present with my son, I'm gonna put my phone down and be fully present with my son.

SPEAKER_03 39:41

Do it in the other room.

SPEAKER_01 39:42

Yeah, and and that's the hardest thing because sometimes there is immediate attention needed, but I feel like I want to be a hundred percent showing up for whoever is in front of me, whether it's my family or my clients, and that's a that's challenging with all of the distractions.

SPEAKER_00 39:56

And that's my only that's my only non-negotiable, whether we're having coffee or we're sitting here, is that the phone is flipped over or it's off, um, and I'm a hundred percent present with you. That is my only non-negotiable when I'm with someone. Yeah, the only call I will take, and I will always take it, even if I'm with clients. I did it the other day at some physicians in the car, is when my daughter calls me. Yeah. That phone always gets answered. Yeah. Make sure she's not on fire. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah, right. Dead serious. But that's the only one. But other than that, yeah, I'm I'm present with you. But if they call, it's like, oh hold on a second.

SPEAKER_01 40:36

It's actually the hardest skill to really train yourself to be present. Yeah. It's a discipline. It is a discipline.

SPEAKER_03 40:42

It is discipline, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:43

So it's almost more a discipline than a skill. Like, yeah, yeah. I had to learn I had to well, I had to learn everything, but I had to learn boundaries. And the best phone call, the best message I get today from clients in real estate. Sorry to bother you on a Saturday. Yeah, but I have a question. I love that. Yeah. Respect my time. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:07

Absolutely. Sorry to bug you today.

SPEAKER_01 41:09

So I'm curious.

SPEAKER_00 41:10

It should be. Just kidding.

SPEAKER_01 41:11

With your yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:13

You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 41:13

You are a bug. No, just kidding. You're never a bother to us. We love you. Call us anytime. But not after 8 p.m. Um, so with your marketing and advertising background, how did you bring that to running your own business?

SPEAKER_00 41:30

Um I had I had been on massive brands. So I knew um I knew how marketing dollars worked. I mean, I worked on Steve Wynn's resorts in Las Vegas. I mean, our Microsoft budget was a half a billion dollars.

SPEAKER_01 41:47

A little larger than you had at starting your own business.

SPEAKER_00 41:49

It was just advertising.

SPEAKER_01 41:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:51

That wasn't even total marketing. It was insane. Um, so I worked on a lot of things, worked on beer and all this stuff. I had an aesthetic for because of my graphic design background and my advertising background, I had a high um understanding of like art and how to do things properly. Um, I think. I mean, I I like the way I art directed the book and the cover and all that stuff. It's simple. Um, I just like simple things, but um just that it um I knew I remember day one, I didn't know anybody in Sacramento. I'm not from here. Yeah. I knew my mother-in-law and my baby and my wife. And I and I remember telling myself, well, how are you gonna do this? And I said, the same way I did it in the city, one handshake at a time. Yeah. That's exactly what I did. And I worked open houses like up the wazoo. Yeah. Which I'm doing a lot right now, too.

SPEAKER_02 42:42

Ditto.

SPEAKER_00 42:43

Um I just did the old-fashioned way.

unknown 42:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:46

And I think the old-fashioned way is always gotta be the foundation.

SPEAKER_03 42:52

It's time tested. It is time tested.

SPEAKER_01 42:55

We've got Trident's.

SPEAKER_03 42:56

I think we talked about it with Matt, you know, on the last pod, how we're we've created all these things to make everything easier, but like at the end of the day, you want the relationship with the. You ain't fast tracking a relationship.

SPEAKER_01 43:10

No, that's that's that's and I think that's the main reason why realtors ha cannot be replaced by AI, because it's the relationship with the human that ultimately dictates whether or not we are going to have a business to run.

SPEAKER_03 43:24

Yeah, I'd be careful with that though. Like I and I don't think I don't think your guys' profession's being replaced anytime in probably our lifetimes, but I will say this like there was a time when I refused to buy something that I was going to wear on my body online because I couldn't try it on. And now I could tell you I'd probably buy 99 things online for every one that I buy in a store that I try on. So yes, I I think it's it's there's a long way to go. Yeah. Um but but I I I caution maybe today's youth to to to be careful because at some point you actually are gonna be re we are we're all gonna be removed.

SPEAKER_01 44:00

Maybe one day in a in some aspect. But you can never replace the human relationship.

SPEAKER_00 44:04

Correct. If you show people you care, the rest of it takes care of itself. Yeah. It does. And I can prove it time and time again. And really, you know, I think that core values are absolutely Watered down, if not kind of getting lost these days.

SPEAKER_02 44:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:25

Um, you know, these are the basic things. It's like, you know, what I mentioned about the Vatican. I mean, these are just basic spiritual messages. Golden rule. The golden rule will always be the golden rule. Golden rule. Like be kind to people. You know, open the door for somebody, you know.

SPEAKER_01 44:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:41

Have a couple.

SPEAKER_01 44:42

But your shopping cart back.

SPEAKER_00 44:43

Oh my God.

SPEAKER_03 44:44

I was in Vegas. I was in Vegas two weekends ago for a volleyball tournament. And I'm and I'm a door holder. I got caught holding the door for about 60 people. Yeah, well, that's what it's like. There was no outer. There was no out. It was like every time I was going to let it go, there was like a little old lady coming along, like, fuck. Like I got a hold of her, too. And now the whole neck team comes along.

Parenting Teens And Letting Go

SPEAKER_01 45:05

Something else that I've been really tuned into. I think it's just because I'm a mother and it's it's that esoteric understanding that you can't experience unless you are a parent. But it's just how precious our children are. Oh, yeah. And how much, a little interaction, a little time can impact their entire life. And eventually those young children are going to be running the world, the country, the businesses. So it is our duty and our responsibility to make space for them and to show them how to be the best human possible.

SPEAKER_03 45:41

Yeah. And I think, sorry to interrupt Paul, but I think and I think Paul will probably agree with this. And then you get to a point where you have to give them the leash. Oh, I'm not ready after that. You gotta let go. You gotta let go. And I'm like, so I joke, like I joke, I'm like, I'm like, hey, I've got I've got a little more than two years of high school left with my daughter. Oh, and I've been fully leaned into this experience for all four years. Um, you know, and like every every week or month or semester or quarter that ticks by, I know that we're getting closer to that point where she no longer lives with us every day. I'm in the process, she just turned 16. Like on the 8th of April, she's taking her driver's test, and and and then we'll really see less and less of her. Because I was like coming into this, I'm like, I really need to, and I'll probably pick Paul's brain more offline than on with this, but like, but the the the the sending them off.

SPEAKER_01 46:41

Like how old are your girls, Paul?

SPEAKER_00 46:43

Uh 21 and uh 20. Um and my daughter Campbell, so when I dropped when we dropped her off at University of Arizona in Tucson, she's the younger. She's the older.

SPEAKER_01 46:54

So first one. First one to leave the home.

SPEAKER_00 46:56

Yep, bear down. Um I was freaking the fuck out when I dropped, because I I'd only been to Tucson for like three hours for the tour. Then I'm dropping my my baby baby um there. But she's now working at Banner Medical Center in ICU as a nurse.

SPEAKER_01 47:17

Good for her.

SPEAKER_00 47:18

And crushing. I mean, she's a student, student nurse, it's a teaching hospital. But you know, she told me a story the other day and about somebody who had a very traumatic injury, um, very traumatic, and um but she's in it.

unknown 47:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:33

And my other one is up at Oregon State in Corvala studying digital marketing, gonna go into sports, media, all this stuff. Like these are our kids, but yeah, it's a freak out. I was on Life 360 for like four months after.

SPEAKER_01 47:48

I just heard about that month. Okay. My Uber driver just told me that.

SPEAKER_03 47:54

I'm a frequenter of it right now. Like, I got a kid on an e-bike and a kid that's learning to drive.

SPEAKER_01 47:58

You can't even tell you like how fast they're going and stuff, right? Like that is.

SPEAKER_00 48:02

So just call me if you need any tips. I've been through the I've been through the the valley.

SPEAKER_01 48:07

I feel like I I'm I'm pretty bad, but my wife is like super attached, and I feel like she is going to be, it's gonna hit her a lot harder.

SPEAKER_03 48:20

I feel like Kaylee kind of just subtly disclosed that Danny doesn't listen to this podcast saying something like that. She doesn't. It's fine.

SPEAKER_01 48:28

All it's totally fine. I've said I feel like I've said far worse.

SPEAKER_00 48:32

And then and then when they're both, you know, depending on how many kids you have, whatever, when when when they're both gone, that's a stillness you've never experienced. Oh gosh. Yeah. I don't even know.

SPEAKER_03 48:43

We've always said like crazy, like like we have a house that's way too big for what we need, obviously, and we're blessed to have it. But uh I've yeah tried to tell my kids, I said, look, like your mom and I will stay in this house until you're done coming home. I would love for you guys to be able to come home for your four years in college to your room and that and that comfort. Um, you know, and unless, you know, unless unless you tell us otherwise. Um, I guess, and that'll be get to be my son's call because he's the youngest. He's the youngest. But uh yeah, I mean it it's interesting, Kaylee, because for years I felt the way that you did, and now I've I've now I feel obligated to let some leash out and and and and give her the ability to go make decisions. And you know, I picked up from one of the other dads in in my in my crew, like he's every time they leave, he tells them make good decisions. And to the point where like it's almost comical, like you know, it's so cliche. And then some dam, some damage you you kind of you know, you kind of touch them on the shoulder and go, hey, like eye contact, like make good decisions. Yeah, I know where you're going, I know what you're gonna be doing, I know what's gonna be around there, make good decisions. Yeah, and if you need to call, call.

SPEAKER_00 49:48

Yeah, you have to let your kids screw it up. Yep. Well, that's the that's the best way to learn.

SPEAKER_01 49:54

I know because I'm still a kid, respectively. And my dad always complained that we loved to learn the hard way. And he tried his best to use his own experience to guide us and say, Don't do this. And it was like we were just deaf to his words and had to go do it anyway and fail, and then come back and be like, You were right.

Real Estate Advice And Staying Hungry

SPEAKER_00 50:15

Yeah, and so I wanted to get this little piece in. I'm kind of just jumping in here off your your guys' sheet, but um kind of goes along with that. What advice would you give yourself if you were just starting your career in real estate? And it wrote down um, you don't know what you don't know. There is an innocence when you start something new. Stay hungry, don't overthink it, go for it, no reservations. There's kind of like this childlike when you don't know like when you don't know anything, like you take out the trash, right? Like how hard is that? Um But when you're I think staying hungry in this business, because everybody gets so like God, real estate, it's like it's all you know, bright, shiny things, you know, fancy cars, whatever. It's amazing in the spring and it's hell right in the winter. But I think there's a and I'm and I have I've had to come back to it in my own 20-year career. I've been doing this for 20, 20, yeah, I'm in my 20th year. And um sometimes I have to remind myself, because I'm a 56-year-old guy. It's like you know, you can you can get lazy, yeah, complacent, you know, writing books, whatever, but um stay hungry. Yeah. Like don't be afraid to ask people for business. Honestly. I love that. I love that. Don't I have to remind myself about that all the time. And because everybody inherently wants to help. Yeah. I mean, we gotta sift through people at open houses and whatever, and look you lose, whatever, but that's just part of you know the sales business. Um, but really, you know, just stay hungry and don't get ready to get ready to get ready.

SPEAKER_02 51:52

Oh, yes.

SPEAKER_00 51:53

Like I learned that do it. I learned that from Debbie Johnson. I mean, God bless her.

SPEAKER_03 51:58

You mean the bow in your shoe doesn't have to be perfect before you leave the house?

SPEAKER_00 52:02

Because you can get ready to get ready to get ready all day long and do nothing. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:06

That was actually something. Uh, where did I hear that recently? I think it was at a Tom Ferry conference. But they he was talking about there's there's two distinctions of business owners. There's the people who go do, and then they adjust in the course of doing. And then there's the majority of the population which spends most of their time getting everything perfect before they go do it.

SPEAKER_03 52:30

You plan what you're gonna do, and then by the time you've finished planning, what you need to do has evolved and changed so much of your plan stuff, so you gotta start over again.

SPEAKER_00 52:38

And and don't be a don't be a secret agent. Like you gotta let people know, right? Yes. I mean, I started my Instagram way back in the day just because I wanted to showcase. Yeah. Back when it was just about photography, right? All I wanted to do was show my rides like all over Kingdom Come around here, like El Dorado, Auburn, like look at Paul on his road bike, and that's all I did. I just was just taking cool pictures of me on my rides. And then I'm like, oh, well, I better do something about this work thing.

SPEAKER_01 53:08

I guess people should know I also do something for a living. Totally, totally.

SPEAKER_00 53:12

Oh, Paul's really good on a bike. I bet you he can't write a contract. He must be independently wealthy. Although I will say there is a there's an opportunity coming up that I'm going to be mum about right now from somebody I rode bikes with with a huge technology company to talk about resiliency and uh overcoming obstacles. It just happened last week. So it's it's kind of it's a God thing. It's really a God thing, and I believe that. Um But this is my first media interview, you guys. This is it.

SPEAKER_01 53:46

Popping the cherry. That's right. What an honor.

SPEAKER_00 53:49

That's right. There you go.

SPEAKER_01 53:50

This is this is for you know, you'll always remember your first. This is true.

SPEAKER_00 53:56

And I rem and I remember and I remember my the person that bought my hundredth book.

SPEAKER_01 54:04

Subtle hints. I'm already in my Amazon inbox.

SPEAKER_00 54:08

Feel free to buy as many as you want.

SPEAKER_01 54:11

Um everyone I know is getting a copy for Easter.

SPEAKER_00 54:14

So autographs. Autographs, personalized autographs. So, what do I like about living in Sacramento?

SPEAKER_01 54:21

Yeah, thank you for keeping us dry.

SPEAKER_00 54:23

These are great questions. That's why I want to say I like the lifestyle here.

SPEAKER_01 54:27

It's a great lifestyle.

SPEAKER_00 54:28

I really do. Yeah. Um I call it, and I tell clients this all the time, it's the best kept secret in California.

unknown 54:34

Ooh.

SPEAKER_00 54:35

It really is.

SPEAKER_03 54:36

Which is amazing. It's the capital of California. It is, well, and it really is.

SPEAKER_00 54:40

But when you really think about it, like like, you know, people from other areas that are maybe more metropolitan, whatever, they're like, oh, Sacramento, you know. But they don't get into it. They don't get off the 80 at like 16th. Yeah. And see SAC, see Land Park, see River Park, see everything we have to offer. They just keep going, oh, I'm gonna get to Tahoe.

SPEAKER_01 55:02

Yeah, it's true. It's a quick city, it's easy to drive by, but there is so much to offer. It's got great spirit. And this is what I've always said about Sacramento. And this is why people, you know, they look at the Kings and they're like, man, those fans are die hard. But it's like there is a love of city. And I understand that every city can claim that. Um but I think what makes Sacramento special is that historically we've always been considered an ag town. We haven't been looked at as a metropolitan, a metropolitan city. Yeah. So I think that there's a lot of pride that comes with that. And what we've seen, like the growth here in restaurants and in just things to do, activities, like well, and you're seeing that there are a handful of people that have that have been clued into the secret that is or was well they now live here.

SPEAKER_03 55:54

Yeah, a hundred percent. And and and sure, we bitch about them, we're like, oh, we got a lot more traffic now, but like they've brought culture from LA, they brought culture from San Francisco, desperately needed it. And we did, and we did, and and and Sacramento. And Sacramento pivoted a little bit into the farm to fork movement. So now we weren't necessarily just the cowtown, like, yeah, we still lean into the agricultural side of things and the and all that, but like there's so much more. And and now it's not like we're not beating our chest with proximity to Napa, proximity to Tahoe, although those are great. We have actual things that are Sacramento that we're super proud of that are that are that are noteworthy, right? That are headline worthy, I should say.

SPEAKER_01 56:33

I would say that it's still funny when I have friends that come to visit for the first time, they're flying in from Los Angeles to something, and all you see are the fields.

SPEAKER_02 56:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 56:41

And they're like, where the hell am I going? But then once they get here, it's a vibe. Like we have Sacramento knows how to have a good time. Yeah. And then it's not just about like the out, you know, the nightlife or the activities and stuff. Like, there's outdoor stuff. There is something for everyone, no matter what you subscribe to in life. Yeah. And we love it.

SPEAKER_00 57:02

There's a music scene that never really died. The music scene is I mean, they've got strong. I'm super into it. I mean, we've got Channel 24 now, we've got Ace of Spades, which is a diehard. Um, Fox and Goose does, you know, open mic stuff. Oldfields. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 57:17

Oldfield is the second little field. There's like a ton of intimate spaces for concerts, too. Like we're talking about some of the larger venues that are like, you know, 500 plus, but there's smaller ones that host shows for bands that have been around for 20, 30 years, and it's like, and there's still tons of diehard fans showing up at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_00 57:38

I mean, Channel 24 was a godsend because it bridged between Ace of Spades and Golden One. Yeah, we needed that. And we we did need it. And and Golden One has really been a blessing. I mean, you know what?

SPEAKER_03 57:50

The other thing that doesn't get a lot of credit for Sacramento that really does need the credit is the beer. Yeah, Northern California beer scene. We got some like Needy, Moonraker, those are legit breweries. Legit.

SPEAKER_01 58:05

So I have a I have a question to kind of try to not jump all over the place. But as a musician, being here in Sacramento, are there any like local bands, local, local bands that you are diehard love?

SPEAKER_00 58:21

That's a great question. Um, no, no, that's good. I mean, most of mine are gonna be kind of older. I mean, cake is great, but they've been around for a million years. Jackie Green's really good. He's been around for a while.

SPEAKER_01 58:40

I mean, everybody loves cake.

SPEAKER_00 58:41

Yeah. I mean, so I don't have anybody like right now that I'm like, oh, I'm following that guy or that or that girl.

SPEAKER_01 58:48

Um But you're picking up the guitar again.

SPEAKER_00 58:51

Yeah, I'm playing a lot, which has been wonderful.

SPEAKER_01 58:53

So we might see you on one of these stages.

SPEAKER_00 58:56

We'll see.

SPEAKER_01 58:56

I mean, you might as well. You wrote a book. What's next? Like let's see.

Tattoos As Memory And Meaning

SPEAKER_00 59:00

I enjoy playing guitar. I've played since for 46 years. That's a long time. And so I'm getting back into it. It's been fun. I love that. Gives me something else to do. It's helped me. Yeah, it's been good. It's been good. But yeah, I've got another book and it's I'm just going with it. A friend of mine said the other day, he goes, You're really living out loud. And and that really resonated with me and um in a good way.

SPEAKER_03 59:24

Well, we haven't, I mean, we haven't even talked about like your your addiction to ink. Because oh I know, I was mentioning it. I'm like, it looks like you're adding to your art collection since I but you know, but when did you get your first tattoo? During COVID, 20 Wow.

SPEAKER_00 59:39

How old was that? Yeah, how old were you?

SPEAKER_01 59:41

Did you have a full sleeve on one arm?

SPEAKER_00 59:43

I was um fifty fifty-one? Yeah. It's right after I had my stroke.

SPEAKER_03 59:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 59:50

What inspired you to want to get your first tattoo?

SPEAKER_00 59:55

Uh that the world was coming to an end with COVID.

SPEAKER_01 59:59

Might as well.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:00

Joking, not joking, but no, that was the thought. I'm like, oh well, if the world's coming to the to the end, I didn't really think that was happening. But because of all this chaos, I'm like, why the hell wouldn't I get that tattoo I've always wanted?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:11

Yeah. What was the first one?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:13

This one. So it it's got faith, hope, grace, and love are the words I live by.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:19

Wrapped around a guitar.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:20

Wrapped around a guitar. The flames are all my chaos. Because I the guitar was my refuge from all the pain. And so that's where I went.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:31

Yeah. And um what a beautiful way to channel it, though. That's usually what makes the most listen to music and the the most relatable music is when you channel it with your pain and your experience.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:42

And then my latest is this one. This is the uh metal tonka truck I used to play with at my grandma's house in Oakland.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:49

What's in the back?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:51

Christmas tree. I just had them throw it in there. Because when we we have a forerunner, we always throw the Christmas tree on the back. I'm like, yeah, just throw a tree in there. Why not? That's amazing. Um favorite restaurants.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:06

Yeah. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:06

Localis is probably my favorite.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:08

Really? Okay. It is I you know, I haven't been there since they I was like one of the original um patrons, I guess, when they had just opened, they weren't tasting menu. They were just like a regular come in, here's our menu. And I haven't been there since they changed and became Michelin Nod and all that stuff.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:27

And it's legit.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:28

I need to. I've heard such great things about it.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:30

Am I like Fiore and Folsom? Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:34

It's good. It's good. Have you been to Alora downtown?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:37

No. I like the porch is one of my favorites for brunch.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:42

It's great. I mean, it's like southern food. You can't go wrong with that.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:45

Can't lose on that one. Yankee here in Roseville. Yankee Dumpling? Yes. So 100%. I'm not bad.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:52

So Yankee Dumpling. Yeah. I haven't been to that one, but right across the street. Yeah. By what by uh Paul Martin? Is it by Sun Splash? Yeah, ish, Eureka. Eureka. It's right next to Carmax. But Uncle Uncle Dumpling. Fantastic.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:08

Where have all these dumpling places popped up?

SPEAKER_03 1:02:10

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:11

I've been looking for good dumplings. My favorite dumpling spot is in Midtown, Journey to the Dumpling, because I don't go to Elk Grove, but they make all their noodle fresh, all their dumplings fresh every morning. And like that squeezes my soul. We just did that.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:24

We just did um what's it called? What's the there's a TikTok one? It's called My Daughter's All About It, and we've been to like three of them recently. Um, Fukumi. It's a dump, no, it's a dumpling place. They don't have one in Sacramento area. We went to Vegas, LA. Um, oh my God.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:42

Come on, Dave.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:43

Dinn Thai Fung. And they and they didn't Ty Fung, and it's it's a it's an upper scale, like it's and you walk in and you see them making it. Yeah. Um, it's fantastic. But but they all call it DTF. And I'm like, apparently, like today's generation has a very different definition of DTF.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:00

I know it's acronym crazy.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:03

And we thought real estate was bad.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:05

I heard the first time I heard my daughter say DTF, I was like, excuse me? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:11

You go washed your mouth out right now.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:14

And I just have to say it shout out to uh Taro, but McCoonie's my favorite. Yeah. Kim Garrill in all the land.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:20

He's done such a fantastic job. Yes. And more specifically, the Hazel location. And speaking of the original. And tying that into Sacramento. Yeah. I mean, like, you get people who come to Sacramento from out of town and they know McCoonie. Yeah. They do. I mean he's put away. They probably call it McCoonies, and you're like, no, it's like Nordstrom's.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:42

I still say McCoonies. Sorry to admit. I am one of those violators that still call it McCoonies. We'll work on it. Sorry.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:48

It's all right. We can work on it.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:50

I pledge to be better for you. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:54

If I could be anyone for a day.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:57

Oh, are we here?

SPEAKER_01 1:03:58

Hold on. Dan has to officially ask you this question.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:02

I think we are here. This has been such a great conversation. It's such an easy conversation. This hour has flown by. I know. I feel like Paul's definitely more than teed up for another. I can't wait to read this book. You know, yeah.

John Wick Answer And Final Takeaways

SPEAKER_01 1:04:16

Ask the question. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:17

So okay, Paul. We ask all of our guests this. Yeah. It's always it's always the way we wrap it up. Um if you could be anyone for a day, who would it be? And what would you do?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:31

John Wick. And I'd fight bad guys all day long.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:37

Can we all just acknowledge that the the entire John Wick series started because somebody killed his dog? That's right. Like if you touch my dog, prepare for John Wick. Because I will take the world down if you touch my dog.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:53

You know, it's it's such a dude thing, but that character I love because it's like this fantasy world under underbelly, but I just like the whole fighting sequence. It's so good.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:04

It's as a woman, and I don't know if this is like the influence of my brothers and my father just washing off on me, but I love a good fight scene too. Like, I mean, I grew up on like the Mortal Kombats and all that too. So it's like when I see a good one well done.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:21

It has literally made me think about like getting into jujitsu for like athletic reasons. Yeah. Like it would just be kind of fun.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:29

Yeah, it would be.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:30

But yeah, I'd be John Wick for a day.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:31

John Wick.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:32

Fight bad guys.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:34

I love that.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:34

I like that.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:35

Just walk go around town kicking ass, taking names.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:40

Kicking ass. And I will say my last thing I wanted to just get in here. Um, these words is faith, faith, resiliency, belief, belief in being better, care, consideration, kindness. I mean, those are just all um all important things. It's that foundational stuff, right? Yeah. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:03

Well, if you didn't get anything out of today's episode, you just weren't listening, is all I have to say. Because there were some incredible nuggets. And uh, if you want to realize that you are so not alone in the stuff you're dealing with every day, go buy Paul Brown's book on Amazon at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:17

And if you're feeling sorry, if you're feeling sorry for yourself.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:20

Yeah, just take just pick one of his chapters to see what he's overcome in his life and then try to keep complaining.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:26

And I write is P. Chrisman Brown, if you're searching it, it won't come up as Paul. Okay. Well, P.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:31

Christman. Oh, everybody have what does they call it? Like a pseudonym or something?

SPEAKER_03 1:06:35

Your alias, your author name. Well, if you got a badass middle name, you might as well roll with it. That is my name, actually. That's it. Impressive. Thank you for having me. Well, Paul, thank you so much again for joining us and shooting, shooting the bull here in the shoot. We love it.